Hi Obi Van, I have not had the chance to use Tree Onyx as they do not have a demo as Xfrog does. Onyx is more expensive up front, but the program comes with around 300 differnt plants, Xfrog comes with 60. You can purchase additional tree types from them for around a $100 (U.S.). In the end you have about $500 (U.S.) in all with both programs. Xfrog doesn't have too steep of a learning curve, and the end result is lovely. The same could be said of renders that I have seen done with Tree Onyx products. The problem is the staggering size of the files compared to Vue's native tree format. So the point I am trying to make is that if I am going to spend $100 - $200 for 30 some odd trees for Vue, I would like to obtain them in Vue's format. Of course the atvantage of using either Xfrog or Onyx is that you could use the models in other apps as well. Varian, your grammar is just fine. You came through loud and clear. JAS