bb, how much would it take to get you to be a double agent?? lol you probably won't remember but I was one (non daz employee) who pm'd you asking if you would do for ds what you do for poser. lol I realise now there's simply no time, regardless of conflict of interest.

I'm thinking ds shader mixer is the equivalent to matmatic, shader builder is... not like anything else.  In ds you can actually define the set of shader attributes but in poser we start with the predefined "poser surface" top node to which you can plug in other predefined nodes.  So there's the main difference.  For ds there was no main node and no set of existing nodes to plug into it, so people tended to write their own shaders (which is in renderman shading language.)  That's the first hurdle.  DAZ came out with shader mixer and shader builder much later.

Gah, sorry, further topic drift!

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part