Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: DAZ Kids Unleashed!

hborre opened this issue on Apr 13, 2010 · 80 posts


kobaltkween posted Wed, 14 April 2010 at 9:24 AM

a couple of things:

yeah, sorry, D|S users are a little less generous.  almost anyone who knows anything about the program sells either products using it or the knowledge itself.  theSea and Dreamlight are awesome people who provide wonderful, in-depth information for D|S.  but you have to pay to get it.  and you don't have to pay for equivalent information for Poser.  bagginsbill is incredible, but he's only one of the many i've learned from.  SVDL and PhilC have taught me tons about many things, including cloth and dynamics, Geep has taught me some great basic principles, and if i ever want to make rigged props, i'll be going back to his tutorials.   before i was just following bagginsbill, i was reading posts by Ajax, TemplarGFX and others.  at RDNA, i've followed Olivier, and i've listened to Traveler since i started using Poser about a decade ago.   

just about everything about Poser is discussed in forums and given instructions here. people who follow bagginsbill tend to post their findings and results and chime in on threads to help people.  theSea posts wonderful helpful behind the scenes notes with his images, and i've found some other really great D|S tutorials, but they're a lot fewer and farther between than in-depth, technical information for Poser.  and there are people writing plug-ins for D|S, so i know that not all D|S users are totally clueless about how the program actually works.

which gets to Fisty's statement about being the bagginsbill of D|S.  having asked her, Fisty said she meant that she could make good shaders that render well.  not that she could do math with shaders.  at all.  well, that's the heart of bagginsbill's work.  she also didn't mean she'd written several free development tools for D|S users, which bagginsbill has.    i understand that she's proud of her skills, and she should be.  i also understand she's very generous with her skills, which is highly laudable.  but i've done both eyeballing and building shaders from code, and it's not even vaguely the same thing.  and i can't do even a tiny sliver of what bagginsbill does.

how would this situation come about?  really simple: Poser's Python was free and came with the API documentation from the start, and D|S's SDK was very expensive  and closed for a long time.  free development vs. development that needs to make up money and isn't even available to the general population means a more closed community. 

Fisty is great at shaders, but she doesn't know Shader Mixer at all (at least, that's what she told me).  AprilYSH works with D|S a lot, but is quite mistaken about Shader Mixer.  it's equivalent to the Material Room, not Matmatic.  it isn't a way to script materials so that you don't have to worry about making nodes at all.  in Matmatic, the compiler decides how many nodes you actually need to implement a statement like Blend(color1, color2, mask).  that's not at all the same thing as having to work with nodes directly.  the whole point of Matmatic is abstracting to expressions and not needing a GUI.  not to mention, ShaderMixer doesn't have built-in input multiplication.  it has input override.  so any nodes you'd generate from something like a Matmatic script need to be implemented very differently. 

but that's the thing.  the people who really understand stuff like this and build shaders mathematically sell things like HSS and PWSurface.  they don't say: "hey, this is how i made SSS work.  here you go for free."  i'm not saying they should do that, but even face_off wrote a free tutorial on how his Real Skin Shader was built before he sold it.  and all of the other Poser skin shader people i know of  posted their experiments here in the forums.  so yeah, the Poser community tends to be a little more generous, which happens when people don't need to pay more to become experts. 

you can see it in D|S shader support, and when (if?) the tool for making dynamic cloth finally comes out, and costs even more than the tool to edit settings on for dynamic cloth, it will be visible in that area.  not to say that there aren't nice and generous D|S users, but it's just harder and more expensive to get at in-depth D|S knowledge than it is to get at Poser knowledge.  and as a result, a lot of very accomplished D|S users don't actually have in-depth knowledge or understanding, so they can't share it even if they wanted to.