***That tut sounds ideal, but I've checked both CD's *** Hrrm. I'm sure I saw it there somewhere. I'll go check. I also have lurking here somewhere the Advanced Techniques Manual that Metacreations released it may well be on that one if you can't find it elsewhere. Sorry, I was sure (not checking of course) that it was in the book or on cd, but you are right now that I look for it, it's not there. Now I'm going to have to figure out where I did find the darned thing. :) The wierd rotations you got from the props as a point at can be altered in the joint editor. As Sams3D points out you will need to adjust the green and red crosses to get the rotations you want, in the joint editor you can also set the falloff zones and length of rotation which will go some way to making it behave. Basically though the green cross is the centre of rotation and the red cross is the end of the rotation arc. It's a relatively tedious job making something poseable but not impossible. :)