Fugazi1968 opened this issue on May 21, 2010 · 24 posts
kobaltkween posted Sun, 23 May 2010 at 9:05 AM
you're talking a totally different situation now. i'm very much for improved usability. and i agree that there's a lot that could be done to improve the interfaces of these "advanced" features. but that wasn't what you suggested. you suggested breaking Poser into at least 4 parts because people don't use them (by your estimation- i don't think any of us really knows the Poser user base as a whole rather than our particular corner of it) now. i'm just saying what i think that would result in.
it's not hidden at all in the marketplace, you're probably just not looking, or actively ignoring it (in the sense that we all tend to ignore marketing or store items that don't have anything to do with what we want or need). off the top of my head, Fabiana, SaintFox, vikke176, Nathalie, tabala and corvas have all had dynamic items that among the very few products actually promoted in the Rendo Marketplace, if not best sellers. karanta and esha both made a lot of prominent clothing sets, and as far as i could tell, Lady Littlefox's Starlight gown sold very well, as did some other very simple dynamic clothes at RDNA. i check the "What's Hot" list here at least weekly, and i've seen more and more dynamic items on that first page. and a few of them have been by people i can't even remember.
i'm looking for it, so i've noticed a big uptick in dynamic products, use by forum members, and use by gallery members lately. i might be able to say it's increased since DAZ came out with dynamic clothing, but i can't be sure.
imho, dynamic clothes are already much easier to use than conforming, if they're made properly. and i've seen nothing but post after post saying popular dynamic clothes were incredibly easy to use. i've literally never seen someone say, "i bought [popular dynamic item x], and i had a problem using it." i've only seen, "i bought [popular item x], and it was incredibly easy to follow the instructions and use. i was really surprised that someone as [self-deprecating adjective] as me could use them easily." so it's already possible to do usably. that isn't to say i know how to do it, but i can tell you, yeah, people are doing it already. like i said, i was told by a merchant that dynamic items sell well and sell consistently, if not with the same sudden influx of sales at the beginning. those products make money steadily.
so while you might think that there's no diffusion happening (and i could understand that, it's definitely still in early stages), the numbers don't seem to support that. oh, and i've actually seen several clothing sets that caught my eye that warned that they weren't dynamic. so obviously a lot of people were expecting and wanting them to be.
Quote - I specified that the basic versiow would be able to render anything the advanced version created.
not really, you didn't. you suggested a version with an "advanced" renderer. there is no separation between what a renderer can do and what materials are. to be more explicit about my example, if only the "advanced" renderer can handle GI and glowing materials, if someone makes an IronMan suit with glowing eyes and center piece, the basic version can't render it properly. graceful degradation doesn't mean it works, it just means it doesn't get but so ugly when it doesn't.
in terms of the dynamic clothes, yeah, they seem to be working very well for DAZ based on how many of their dynamic items i see in the galleries.
Poser Artist was pretty well marketed, to judge by how much i saw it outside of here.
no, dynamic clothing is not a no brainer in terms of popularity. years of using conforming clothes, which just don't work realistically, has given people completely unrealistic expectations of clothing. at least a quarter of the problems i've seen people say they have has to do with expecting something that simulates actual cloth to work as conforming clothes do, which is to bend, stretch, ignore physics and act more like skin than real cloth. real clothing needs to be cut a certain way or it gaps. real clothing needs to have seams and reinforcements in certain places, or it's shapeless or fits poorly. real clothes (and real bodies), have big problems when things penetrate their surfaces.
frankly, i even see unrealistic expectations with conforming clothes. i watched a few people ask Lady Littlefox for good sitting morphs for her latest dress. her informing them that in real life, hoop dresses don't allow you to sit in a normal chair didn't deter them. how many people want armor that conforms and bends, completely unlike real armor? i've read a lot of complaints about clothes poking through in poses that, in real life, simply wouldn't work in that type of clothing. real clothing and real armor restricts movement, but many people seem to want clothes that can work in those impossible poses.
there's lots of aspects of making and using dynamic clothes that just involve changing how you think. i totally agree that there are many ways the Cloth Room could be made more usable. that said, the big problems i see people say they have is that they think they should come up with the cloth settings themselves (which is kind of like them deciding to make their own rigging, rather than relying on the creator), not understanding how to go from the initial pose to the final pose properly, not leaving enough time, not thinking about how gravity would actually work, and not wanting the cloth to gap, fall, drape or whatever like it actually would given a certain situation.
oh, and i never said everyone will benefit. some people use P4 and Posette, so they'l (probably) l never benefit from any of the Poser advances in rendering or rigging. but does the community benefit as a whole? i've already seen that it has.