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Model them as just part of the flat mesh, select the ring ot polys around the edge, now depending on your modeller, extrude/bevel/fillet those polys, then softent the edges so they are not razor sharp.

Hope that makes sense.

John

oh it makes total sense.  and it's how i make them.  the issue is that first step: model them as just part of the flat mesh.  if i do that when i've made the clothing already, there's mostly no simple way to get something that's actually even.  if i do that before i've made the clothes and when i'm in my flat stage, it's easy to make even, but it becomes uneven in the process of making it.  i've tried it both ways, and neither has been very satisfying yet as a method.  yeah, i know, it works fine for literally everyone else.  i think this is one of those things that comes easy to everyone, but i just have to find a way that works with my little weird brain.

i'll figure something out eventually.  i might just need to get a little creative with my thinking and my process.

and your method seems to work really well.   i wasn't trying to say you should do anything different.  i just figured you were doing it for a reason, and i wanted to understand that reason better before running into problems.  for instance, i started off making hems soft decorated but didn't separate them like you did and ran into trouble.  i read the manual and it explained (as i think you mentioned recently) that soft and hard decorated groups shouldn't share polygons with the cloth mesh.  that was a few months ago.  if i had asked you about it then, i would have saved myself a lot of trouble.