adp: that's what I was under the impression of also.. I didn't think we were trying to show that firefly was a poor engine, I thought we were trying to show the difference you can get using "simple lighting" without going through all of the procedures of setting up everything

ice, you can't look at 1 picture and decide that someone isn't good enough at something.. take a look at some of my other work:  http://luckdragon70.deviantart.com/gallery/