Hi all,

First of all, I'm sorry if I have posted this in the wrong forum- the program specific forums didn't seem to be the right place as my question is about many programs.

After having a stroke at the price of the very popular 3DS Max - $3500 is more than I am willing to spend on a program - I need some other options for 3D programs and I don't know where to begin. What I want to do ultimately is design cars that are a digital recreation of exotic cars. There are lots of cars that I have seen on Renderosity and deviantART but they are mainly made using 3DS Max.

My question is, would Carrara 8 allow me to design cars and vehicles? Or is there another program someone could suggest that doesn't have as nearly a crippling pricetag as 3DS Max.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to spending a lot of time on this forum, and the marketplace, developing my newbie digital art skills. 

Konstantine

Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, Carrara should allow you to do just that, and handily. I can't speak from personal experience: I'm going based on what others have told me.

But yes: $3500 is a steep price to pay for something hobby-ish that you may or may not end up using after all. There's a lot of free modellers around, each with their own learning curves and capabilities/features.

Ooo, speedy reply (No surprise really considering we're nearly neighbours!)

Some further Google searches has heralded another result that Hexagon 2 from DAZ 3D will also let me model cars. So there are some cheaper options around that I'm pretty pleased with.

I'd like to hear from people who use Carrara or Hexagon 2 to hear what they think of the programs. A run in the demos of each program will help me decide, but I like hearing other people's experience with the programs and the results they get.

|I am a modeler, enthuseit and professional and  i will tell you that Cararra is a very sub-par modeling program.

You want to go for something Wings 3D, or Modo for the lower priced stuff. Just Google for 3D modeling programs and you should get lists of what does what and what does NOT. Dont waste your money on Cararra.

i have Carrara  and hexagon, silo,  and many more .. to much money spent on lightweight modelers ..
IF you want a PRO modeling tool go MODO @  http://www.luxology.com/

Spending money on other lightweight programs like i did is such a waste.

just my 6 cents ..

BC

Modo would be excellent choice, it costs around 1000$, but you get everything artist need. Max is great app but its aimed to pro orient not hobbyist, thats why the price seems high. Carrara and Hexagon are waste of money IMHO, if you want that level and higher go with Blender its complete production app for free. Rhino is nurbs modeler and would be great choice for exotic cars designs too, not sure about price but its around like Modo I guess.

Mmm, so Hexagon 2 isn't looking so crash-hot with these user comments. And Carrara 8 Pro too? 
Looking into Rhino and Modo, I think Modo will be the one I will seriously look into purchasing because it's the only one I can order online without a great deal of hassle. Rhino doesn't seem to recognise Australian customers for online ordering.

Does anyone have anything they have modeled and rendered in Modo, just to give me an example of what the program is capable of? Looking at the gallery for Carrara 8 Pro and even Hexagon 2 looked very impressive (but being the gallery on the website, of course they would want the images to look impressive)

One of the greatest considerations I need to make is that whichever modelling and rendering program I use, has sufficient lighting so the car looks like a car should with some gloss to the shell. Of course I could be adding some of the lighting with post-work in Photoshop, but to me, a 3D modeling and rendering program that has the end result look flat and lifeless isn't exactly what I'm after.

Attached Link: MODO GALLERIE with USER IMAGES !!

Btw the luxology community at Luxology site is great and so is the Help from staff and forum members

Chris

Check Modo official gallery at their site, some very nice cars at recent posts. Im using C4D for years as main modeling app and am very satisfied, but am very disappointed with lack of GI in core version that cost same as Modo. Modo have GI, AO, and all other "standard" stuff you need for making full design from A to Z. If you want to cash for 3D app, I would suggest you to follow the old saying "Im not rich enough to buy cheap stuff" ;)

 Hey, thanks for that! If the code works, I'll be really very happy- $100 bucks I can be spending on other things for my new desktop (the beast of a machine has crippled me financially)

I was looking at the Modo gallery just now.... the cars are all very impressive with the sheen of the metal. That realistic gloss is just the look I'm after.

Hahahaha! I hadn't heard that saying before, tantarus, but it is so very true. You try to take shortcuts with buying cheaper anything, you end up paying more in the long run because the cheap stuff always needs replacing.

Compared to C4D, everything is cheap. But the results I have seen of what people have made in C4D, it's definitely very impressive with what it can do. (I just don't want to be impressive enough to part with $3500 when I can use a slightly cheaper option)

Carrara's modeler is "meh" to put it lightly. It's polygon tools are fairly weak, and it does a few "nurbs-ish" things. And both ways of working aren't exactly fully interchangable.

For box/poly modeling use Wings3D, Silo, or Modo, depending on how much you care to spend. If you think nurbs is more your liking, then Blender, MOI, Rhino, C4D, or Maya.

The question was about modeling, yet you're probably going to want to render too...

In that case, consideration of Carrara comes back into play. That's where its redeeming qualities come in. (Decent as a rendering engine, and ok at animation. Just don't model much with it, unless you like workflow slow and tedious.) It's possible to import a model in .obj format, texture it and stage it, and get nice results with much less figuring and messing around than it takes for most other apps. (It really is drag n' drop for most things. Working with staging and mats is the opposite of its modeler.) If you do look at it, consider it as complimentary to whatever modeling app you choose.

The other pay-for rendering apps are just as good if not better than Carrara, but keep in mind the price and learning curve. It's not going to get any easier, and to get more you're going to have to pay quite a bit more.

And if you don't want to spend anything on rendering, I'd suggest Kerkythea(non-commercial), Blender, or POV-Ray. Just be prepared to put more time into figuring them out.

Thankyou so much for such an informative reply! :)

I don't know if box/poly or "nurbs" will be more my thing, but whatever program I pick, I will learn whichever approach it uses without much comparison to the other kind. I haven't done any 3D modelling before so this is all very new and there is no point of reference for comparison.

Rhino 3D isn't an option because I don't have a whole lot of options for buying it in Australia, and when I do, the price is more than I'm willing to spend, particularly if Rhino is just going to be the modeller.

C4D and Maya are the same- far too expensive. And someone said in a previous post that C4D is aimed at pros.

I'm thinking Modo or Silo. I have downloaded the trials for Silo and Modo, and I'll be grabbing Carrara just to have a play around and see what program does what. I might not even a secondary program, depending how I like Carrara. I don't mind slow and tedious when I'm making something- with a hobby, there are no deadlines.

modo is the most bang for the buck and is very stable compared to other 3D modeling/rendering apps.

I'm leaning towards modo, but I will see what happens when I play around in the demo :) 

If I could afford modo, I'd be getting it over Silo. I have Silo, and whilst there are great modellers who swear by it, I mostly swore at it. And the forums left a lot to be desired. Besides, I don't see a lot of developing going on at nevercenter, so not sure whether this programme has reached EOL.
Mind you, it is inexpensive and, if you can get anything to work for you, looks reasonably easy to use.

The modo demo was rock stable. Very powerful programme with a lot of capabilities. Huge learning curve, but hey, that's what you get with a lot of features.

Yes, you're right- any program that is jam packed with tools and features comes with a huge learning curve. 

Thanks so much for everyone's input- It looks like I'll be getting modo at some stage (There are other more pressing programs I need first)

Konstantine,

  Carrara will allow you to model the cars you want although the workflow may not be the best . I learned how to model with Carrara and still do my modeling with Carrara because it is familiar to me.  I have modeled people and anything else I wanted with it and the fact that it is a full featured 3d app makes it a great app for me.   Good luck with your modeler search.

The tutorials I have seen with Carrara and Hexagon modelling a car look pretty straight forward to me. Still looking into programs, I haven't completely dismissed Carrara... and I have found another program to further complicate the issue - Zbrush.

Has anyone had any experiences with Zbrush?

ZBrush is the king of sculpting programs.  Then Mudbox.  Then all the other prgrams that don't have nearly the detail in their tools.

And using a sculpting program like Zbrush, is that an effective way of creating cars (the cars I want to do they aren't the hyper-detailed realistic ones... just the shape of the shell and maybe some detail with the lights and wheels... all external details) or modelling a serpent's head for the handle of a cane.

Those are the kinds of things I'm interested in doing. Maybe a little monster creation as well.

If you're good at sculpting cars from clay, ZBrush will excel there.  If you're better at polygon modeling, you'll need a different app.  If you're better at NURBS modeling, there's an app for that too.

I'm completely new to modelling, so I'm not good at any of these methods. I'll be learning from scratch how to model, regardless of what program I ultimately choose.

I should go with a poly modeller to start If I were you. I believe NURBS (rhino etc) is the weapon of choice for car modelling but will produce a heavy poly count.
The UI that suits you is a more imortant choice.

Yes, I agree with you there. The UI is an important part of the decision. If I comes to grips with the UI, then what method the program uses for modelling is ultimately secondary IMO since I have no experience with modelling and have no preferred method.

Moi3d is a capable nurbs modeling app and you can try out the demo version, which is fully functional for 30 day. It uses the same file format as Rhino (3dm) and has a good nurbs to polys conversion for saving polygonal models. It also has a very clean interface. 

Hey, thanks for that suggestion. I haven't heard of this program before, so I will definitely download the trial and give it a try (I particularly like the pricetag attached to it!)

So I see you plumrd for Bryce 7, did you settle on a modeler?

plumrd?

But yes, I always knew I would be getting Bryce 7 for the scenes and backgrounds I would like to make. (I would like to try my hand at those shiny glass textures)

As for which modeler, that is a little trickier but I've narrowed it down to two final contenders: Moi 3D and Zbrush. Since I've recently had to format (because of Bryce arguing with my PC) I haven't yet tried the demos for either of these programs, but the screens shots and the demo videos I've seen look very promising.

I gave modo 401 a try with the demo, but I was greatly restricted with the time I could spend in the program. Their demo last only for 15 days and I only had 7 days with it, and in the middle of installing everything else on my new PC, I didn't spend as much time getting to know modo 401 as I would like.

But in the end, I like the idea of both modeling and sculpting, so I will probably end up getting both Zbrush as well as what modeler I choose, which at this point, looks like Moi 3D.

Bryce 6.3 (full version) is free in either 3D World or 3D Artist (I forget which) in the states right now.  It may have been offered for free from DAZ's site already.

I couldn't see anything on DAZ's website about Bryce 6.3 Only Bryce 7 Update or Bryce 7 Pro was available. Not to worry though. I'm used to missing out on stuff like this. I'll be more than happy with Bryce 7 once I get started and used to the program.

Considering the other programs I needed (and still need) to update for my new PC, Bryce was barely a blip on my radar, and a program I already knew I'd have to buy... instead of getting a nasty surprise when I try and install an older version on Win7, which is what so many of my other programs have seen fit to do.

What's particularly annoying about living here in Oz - noticed that you're in Sydney... I'm in BrisVegas - is that despite the fact that our dollar's almost at parity with that of the States, our software prices are still horribly inflated. I remember looking at Poser 7 at Hardly Normal: AUD $700 +??
How wrong is that? particularly when our earning power is a bit less that what it is in the States, dollar for dollar.
When I first got here, I had been earnng over $90K in Calif as a cath lab nurse: here, same job, higher position (managing a cath lab here) I was making barely $50K. And this is when the Aussie dollar was right around .57 to the US dollar.
Something really not right about this. And yet, technology is heaps more expensive here.

Mind you, I wouldn't move back in a fit: even paying higher prices for everything, life here in Oz is so worth it.

I haven't even seen Poser in the shops here, but you're absolutely right. Everything for us compared to the US is so much more expensive, and for the same thing, there is absolutely no reason for it. Even when there is nothing to ship. Ulead VideoStudio is a perfect example. I bought the VS X13 about a week ago: US price was $59USD. On the Australian sister site, it was $140. Buying the same program, downloading it instead of having something shipped to you on a disc... how can they justify the reason behind such a price difference?

With the Aussie dollar doing so well against the Greenback lately, now is the perfect time for updating programs and buying them directly off the US sites, whenever applicable. Saves so much money.

I live part-time in Sydney, the rest of the time I'm in country NSW and I've noticed drastically the further you get away from the big cities, the higher the prices get within country NSW or even the availablity of items. Living in the country, only 4 hours from Sydney, it's like another planet.

If there was a logical justification of the massive differences in prices, maybe it would be easier to swallow... as it is now, it just burns.

Yes, indeed. As an expat Yank, I sometimes do miss the ready availablity of "stuff" - and the reasonable prices. Whilst on hols in the States, I picked up a Toshiba netbook for US$325. This same netbook would run me AUD$800 - $900 here, and that's if I can find it.
Oh, they'll say something about supply and demand - rah-rah-rah. Well, they are going to find themselves up against some pretty mean competition when people realise they would still win buying stuff overseas even with the horrendous shipping prices.
Reckon they need to smarten up or lose business.

Exactly. Australian shops need to understand their customers if they want to keep them- shopping around and finding out that things are so often cheaper online even with the outrageous shipping charges - especially if something is weighty or coming express - they need to start slashing their prices if they want money to remain within Australian instead of going overseas.

We can't help it if we get more value for money overseas. shrugs Until Aussie shops straighten up their act, I'll still be shopping online... the same as everyone else.

Being American myself and living in Malaysia for 2 years I found things to be USD price, and some even a bit more expensive. Made in Malaysia printed on half of it LOL

Now living in Lithuania, it would cost me 250 USD for a pair of 30 dollar Levi's

Cracks me up...

$250 for a $30 pair of jeans? Yep, that math really makes sense.

It's daylight robbery.

YES it is, supply and demand as you stated. :(

Been wearing the same jeans for almost 7 years LOL

My Hugo Boss jeans are $125 USD.  How much are they in Lithuania?

Hm,if the exhist here,i am sure I would have to mortgage my house, but I havent seen them so not to sure. LOL

I thought when the Aussie dollar got near parity with the greenback that I could go on a shopping spree:)

Unfortunetly when it comes to IT hardware & software I find many US sites wont acept my credit card (Visa but Australian):(

So I'm stuck with the local suppliers who add a premium co$t (but no added value):(

Its the no added value that realy bites (ie I dont know anything about computers I just sell em)!

Yes the quality of life in Aus is great but you try and get some service.

2 Words

Lightwave

Oh...That's one word.

8 )

I was going to try Lightwave myself before deciding on Cinema 4D some years ago. I heard Lightwave has a pretty steep learning curve.

It does...I have C4D R8 and Lightwave 7.5 and LOVE them both. I mention Lightwave here because of the price.

Lightwave is actually "Two"applications (Modeler and Layout) that are synced through a "Hub"...That is a bit fiddly but it can be great if your efforts are focused on just modelling, or just animation/texturing/rendering.

however you can always shuttle the models back and forth to the modeller from Layout (Via the Hub) quite easily.

I reccomend a dual monito set-up when working with both apps.

Speaking of which...C4D's GUI can be torn apart quite nicely for dual monitor support too. Working area on one monito, while all your tools live on the other.

Did I say I was a fan of Dual monitors?...heh heh

8 )

Tom

Yeah, i like to run split screen as well.