JKeller jut fyi it wasnt getting as far as creating an rsr file so that wasnt the cause ,by process of elemination I found the fault that was effecting colm and I was something to do with the mapping as after I remapped the effcted objects the effect whent away strange?? the objects where allready mapped and worked fine in ppp so bit of a ponderer that also it only effected about 15% of the objects even stranger :-)