Hi everyone, 

How about using our software, Marvelous Designer 2, which has recently been released. You can make your own high-quality clothing very quickly. Take a look at demo videos at  http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/Demo.aspx

Some of users have already enjoyed with Marvelous Designer(see the post in Renderosity and post in DAZ 3D). 

• MarvelousDesigner Team

Hmmm...no offense, but I can make clothes in Wings3D for free or in Hexagon, which I already have ;o). Besides, 700 bucks is a bit too rich for my blood ;o).

Laurie

It looks like a cool program, and looks like it would be good for making dynamic clothing for Poser or Daz as well..  It would be cool if they integrated MD into Poser though!

Currently I am sticking to more traditional modelling as well however, just like Laurie.

i would like for Poser to be able to save the dynamic clothing with all the settings, before i would pay money for dynamic clothes.  and without the extra file to keep track of.

a whole new folder and file extention for dynamic cloth?

if they could somehow meld hair and cloth, like the hair styling tools, but on dynamic cloth hair.

As far as I know, at least Poser 7 and up saves dynamic clothes with the settings.. At least all the stuff like fold resistance etc.

Quote - i would like for Poser to be able to save the dynamic clothing with all the settings, before i would pay money for dynamic clothes.  and without the extra file to keep track of.

a whole new folder and file extention for dynamic cloth?

if they could somehow meld hair and cloth, like the hair styling tools, but on dynamic cloth hair.

Poser can already save the settings. It saves the settings with the prop if you save it to the library after you set up the sim. At least I'm pretty darn sure it does.

Laurie

i'm on P7 with SR3.  when i reload a dynamic cloth from the props library, i have to go back to the clothroom to reclothify.

i've tried the menu option for recaluclate all cloth without going to the clothroom first.

what could i be doing wrong?

Yeah, you always have to reclothify the clothing, since it gives you the option which figure you want the clothing to work with. You may have two characters in a scene..

my scenes are pretty crowded these days.  ever since i read the tip about removing V4's deformers, it's helped performance.

Yeah can't automatically get it to clothify it to the figure as far as I know, just like you have to conform conforming clothing when you load it.

Maybe there are some python scripts that can handle it.

i've seen cloth room preset pythons. can't remember by who.  Phil C?

Here http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=38542 ;)

Quote - Hi everyone, 

How about using our software, Marvelous Designer 2, which has recently been released. You can make your own high-quality clothing very quickly. Take a look at demo videos at  http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/Demo.aspx

Some of users have already enjoyed with Marvelous Designer(see the post in Renderosity and post in DAZ 3D). 

• MarvelousDesigner Team

No offense, but for 700 bucks, I could get a copy of Vue I've been drooling at forever.  Has more features than a Poser cloth program, too. ;)

However, if you could post a tutorial for Dynamic Cloth in Wings3D?  Last I tried, I nearly killed my own instance... (Wings3D doesn't like loading the Poser figures whole cloth, it seems)

All I do for wings3d is load the figure without the head, hands and feet (or whatever else I don't need, such as below the knee if I'm making a mini skirt) and then model around it. Keep the figure locked and you won't have the frustration of selecting it when you really want to select the cloth obj you're making. Other than that, the rest is just plain old modeling for which there is a plethora of tutorials on the web ;o). After the modeling's done just export to .obj (without the figure of course) and import into Poser, parent it to the chosen figure and set up your dynamic groups and simulation setting. After you've set up the simulation as you like it, you can go back to the first frame in the timeline and save that clothing item to your library. Done :o).

If you were referring to converting conforming clothing, that's something else and I've personally never done it. I just model the stuff from scratch.

Laurie

Nah, just modeling clothing.  Love Wings3D, and thank you =)

Quote - Nah, just modeling clothing.  Love Wings3D, and thank you =)

I do too ;o).

I forgot to mention that the figure I use to model around I export from Poser in it's default pose. I don't use the geometry .obj because the default pose may be different than the geometry .obj file :o). Then I bring that into Wings and cut off the unnecessary parts :o).

But you probably already knew that...lol.

Laurie

Quote - Hi everyone,  How about using our software, Marvelous Designer 2, which has recently been released. You can make your own high-quality clothing very quickly. Take a look at demo videos at  http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/Demo.aspx

Some of users have already enjoyed with Marvelous Designer(see the post in Renderosity and post in DAZ 3D). 

• MarvelousDesigner Team

Tend to agree with Laurie and Grappo on this one. $700 seems like a lot. The videos are quite compelling, though.

After I get this blasted DS shader done, I'll be tackling dynamics again... there seems to be a lot more information on how to get stuff working in the cloth room available on threads, plus people have offered their help in the form of tutorials as well.

I guess something I've sort of picked up is that mesh behaviour is going to be different for quad-based clothing (which is what I assume Laurie and Grappo are creating) that also has edge-loops versus tri-based cloth, which is what Marvelous generates (I think). I seem to remember a discussion on here somewhere on the merits of one versus the other in terms of how they deform. Still, the behaviour can't help but be different, I would think. So, for that reason also, I think I'd rather get a good sense for Laurie and Grappo's cloth before venturing into the tri-unknown.

Why not tesselate some quad based dynamic cloths into trianges and run some experiments? :)

I think we already know that triangles are better.

I'd love to hear your reasoning why triangles are better for dynamic cloth, BB.

Quote - Why not tesselate some quad based dynamic cloths into trianges and run some experiments? :)

Some of us did that a few months back. I'll try and find the thread ;o).

Laurie

The simulation is for 60 frames, the pose applied at frame 40. Draping frames at 40.

Collision depth is .500. The dress is very close to the figure at the bodice area and on the sleeves down to the elbow - as close as I could model it without it being inside the figure...lol. All the collision options are checked in the sim settings. No constrained groups...just a soft-decorated group at the shoulder seams which is hard to see with this shader.

Sim went smoothly with just mere seconds between each frame and each frame at about the same speed.

Props to BB for the velvet shader which I use profusely ;o).

I hope it's not too small for you guys to see the other settings.

Laurie

It looks nice. How would it play out differently with quads though? Better or worse?

I've used quads for most of my work so far...

Quote - It looks nice. How would it play out differently with quads though? Better or worse?

I've used quads for most of my work so far...

The quads don't seem to drape quite as nicely, but that could just be personal preference. I wish I could explain why I think triangles might be better for dynamic cloth, but I'm sure I'd muck it up and you'd be left more mystified than before...lol. I'll try, but I'm sure bagginsbill can do a much better job of explaining it should he have a mind to.

Basically, it comes down to the verts and how the edges meet up with them. With tris, I think it's just easier for the polys to bend and move in any direction than it is quads. With figures, this doesn't matter so much, because the morphing of the polys is always much less severe than it is with cloth which can bend and fold in just about any direction. Higher resolutions are needed as well since there are so many variables that affect cloth that from the start it needs to be prepared to do just about anything. If the polys are too large, it just can't do extreme poses, no matter the simulation settings. But if they're super hi-res, the sim will take forever simply because it has so much information to chew on ;o).

Sorry if I've confused you further...I wish I was more glib about these things, but alas... I know what I mean - I'm just not always good at explaining it...lol. Then again, I could just be talking out of my ass ;o). If I am, I'm sure bb will be quick to correct me ;o).

edit: for reference, think of Sculptris and (I think) Zbrush which make triangles out of it's displacement...small triangles (again, I think) give more detail than quads. I hope I made sense...lol.

Laurie

Intresting... Well, the next cloth I make I will try out triangles.  Usually I get very nice draping results anyway, since I am very particular with what areas that need more polygon detail to drape than others, and to have high enough resolution..

I'd prefer to work with quads when UVmapping though, then convert necessary areas to triangles.

Do you only use triangles, Laurie?

But right now my poser computer is in for repairs so I can't do much bwaa :(

Quote - Intresting... Well, the next cloth I make I will try out triangles.  Usually I get very nice draping results anyway, since I am very particular with what areas that need more polygon detail to drape than others, and to have high enough resolution..

I'd prefer to work with quads when UVmapping though, then convert necessary areas to triangles.

Do you only use triangles, Laurie?

Nope, and I work on the model in quads and only triangulate at the very end when I'm sure I'm finished. AFTER uv mapping, cause it is indeed easier to uv map quads than it is tris...lol.

Laurie

That's what I thought.. :) You make the same type of models that I do and with the same software, so it'd be surprising if we did things all that different.

Now if the repairshop can just hurry up so I can start doing stuff again lol.

I think I'm gonna try out using tris on my next garment and see how it goes. On a few personal items I usually hit them up with a few sub-d's to make them high poly, and then ran cloth sim. Maybe using tris will be able to do the same smooth draping results without making it so high in poly count. That alone would be a sweet bonus.

I'm running a test now...more severe pose...the quaded dress exploded at the boobs ;o). The tri'd dress did not in the same pose. Same settings on both.

I'll post a pic in a bit.

Laurie

Again, these are tris. The quads exploded at the bust. These didn't. Granted, making tris out of quads does increase the poly count, so it may be just that. I'm thinking it's a little more than that tho.

Sorry...could use some attention from the smoothing brush to tone down the poly shading, but you get the idea ;o).

Laurie

wo wo wo wowo.a lot talk about triangles.

but there are two different triangles. one is when you convert it from quads to triangles in a modeling progrma.

and the second are from creating cloth like MarvelousDesigner and 3Ds max.

LOL...well, not all of us have the benefits of 3DS ;o). I don't have a program that will create those types of tris, although I do agree with you. I think those kinds of tris would be the ideal :o). I'm just not sure I have a modeler capable of tesselating them that way. And I don't have 700 bucks to blow on Marvelous Designer nor do I have 3000 bucks or however much 3DS costs as I'm sure MOST of us don't...lol. I have more frivolous things to spend my money on like food, shelter and car repairs :oP

Laurie

Quote - K, here's the results...

Again, these are tris. The quads exploded at the bust. These didn't. Granted, making tris out of quads does increase the poly count, so it may be just that. I'm thinking it's a little more than that tho.

Sorry...could use some attention from the smoothing brush to tone down the poly shading, but you get the idea ;o).

Laurie

Generally, the bust is one of the places where I have more density of polygons in most tops I make. It has a big effect on the overall realism of the drape, especially since there are so many different breast types and sizes. With that, I never have any problems using quads.

I remember reading some post discussing that type of triangles, but I don't think there was any real conclusion made...

Quote - I remember reading some post discussing that type of triangles, but I don't think there was any real conclusion made...

Probably because most clothes creators didn't have a modeler capable of making them ;o).

Laurie

I usually have a pretty high poly count in most cloth I make these days, since most users have faster computers than in the past to make up for the difference.  A single garment (like a shirt or pants) usually have between 8-15000 polys. A dress can have a bit more than that.  

There's also more to it than what type of polys you use. Another importan factor is where the details are focused. 

I found that a shirt needs extra polys around the breasts, and under the arms. It doesn't need as much detail at the back (Unless it got modelled details like straps and such) 

If you look at the freeitem shirt I made earlier in the post, it shows a screenshot of a highres version. It's detailed enough in the right places to even allow draping around the nipples properly (Which most dynamic cloths don't. )  It's done with quads, but may have needed fewer polys if I had optimized it to triangles?

Pants need more details where the hip meets the thigh, and around the knees. 

Quote - LOL...well, not all of us have the benefits of 3DS ;o). I don't have a program that will create those types of tris, although I do agree with you. I think those kinds of tris would be the ideal :o). I'm just not sure I have a modeler capable of tesselating them that way. And I don't have 700 bucks to blow on Marvelous Designer nor do I have 3000 bucks or however much 3DS costs as I'm sure MOST of us don't...lol. I have more frivolous things to spend my money on like food, shelter and car repairs :oP

Laurie

isnt Marvelous Designer 99$ ?

Yeah but that's non commercial.

Quote - > Quote - LOL...well, not all of us have the benefits of 3DS ;o). I don't have a program that will create those types of tris, although I do agree with you. I think those kinds of tris would be the ideal :o). I'm just not sure I have a modeler capable of tesselating them that way. And I don't have 700 bucks to blow on Marvelous Designer nor do I have 3000 bucks or however much 3DS costs as I'm sure MOST of us don't...lol. I have more frivolous things to spend my money on like food, shelter and car repairs :oP

Laurie

isnt Marvelous Designer 99$ ?

From what I hear, the $99 version is way too limited for I'd want to do with it.

Laurie

Hey Laurie, while we are on the subject.. Do you know of any good modelling techniques to create things like gathered fabric?  I know that Wings have a lot of tools that I haven't really explored fully yet.

Also pondering if anyone has ever tried other more advanced forms for the clothroom, like multi layered skirts. 

I did see a dynamic multilayered skirt once that looked really good.

Quote - Also pondering if anyone has ever tried other more advanced forms for the clothroom, like multi layered skirts. 

I did see a dynamic multilayered skirt once that looked really good.

The only thing I've tried in this area is the dress with the peplum on it which is really an overskirt, albeit a short one ;o). I made the peplum a soft-decorated group and it seemed to work fine.

Laurie

Quote - Hey Laurie, while we are on the subject.. Do you know of any good modelling techniques to create things like gathered fabric?  I know that Wings have a lot of tools that I haven't really explored fully yet.

Hexagon has a real nice toolset, but I'm still learning to use them ;o). From what I see so far, there are more ways of doing things than there are in Wings, which is limited solely to box modeling.

Laurie

I have Hexagon too.. I grabbed it when it was super cheap, but haven't actually worked with it yet. ;)

Actually, I think I'll start a cloth modelling thread on the Wingsforum where we could try out and talk about different techniques..

Now I just need my darn computer back.. :P

That's how I got Hex as well ;o). The thing that really interests me about Hex are splines. You can do nearly anything with some splines because in Hex you can use splines with closed line shapes. Open ones too for that matter ;o).

There are tons and tons and tons of Hex tutes on the web. www.geekatplay.com has a whole bunch and there's a bunch on Blip.tv as well. I think Vimeo too. YouTube goes without saying ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Yeah but that's non commercial.

noone will know its from MD when you export the OBJ.the triangles look like from 3Ds max.  

i think the  ''its not possible to use for commercial work'' is just a trick from them.

in my free section i have some dynamic clothes for M4.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/member.php

i think this week i will also realese a new t-shirt and short pants

sarcasm Ok...we'll ignore the EULA. ???

Um, yeah. sarcasm

Laurie

what is eula?