rendorosity has always been clicky mesh magic as schlabber said if youre not a main player dont expect to much response from the names however i thought you were one of the names also. as a rule i as a nobody find that the response to post,s very good personally as a rule if i dont know the answer i keep my mouth shut however if i can help i will i agree with a lot of the points you made but you time is a killer. not flaming anyone here by the way. stu-art