LaurieA- I have tried putting it into a soft group, It fixed the issue on the back but then I had issues in the front. same issue, different spot... The image here is with the collar put into soft group. See how I am missing red at the front of the breast instead of the back? edit... I can still see it on the back...

 

PhilC- The image in the first post shows the issue. On the back of the collar you can see the white pokethough on the red collar. I do have cloth self collisions selected, I just forgot the name of it (I said "to interact with itself", i just forgot what its' called). Is this a mesh issue or a setting issue? Knowing it has no thickness and the direction of the normals...

 

Or am I being stupid and should expect this?

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