I don't think that it's as simple as "DazStudio sucks because it's not Poser" and I think saying it is is turning a blind eye to all the reasons people have actually given for not liking DS. I personally don't dislike it. In fact, I use it to get Poser content easily into Bryce. That's all I use it for but like any tool it has it's use. I don't use it to pose or render because I am more comfortable using Poser for that.

What I do dislike is when a company asks for it's users opinions time and time again and then goes on to ignore said opinions repeatedly. Nobody I have heard of wants the CMS program to run as a Windows service when DS isn't running except for DAZ. Now having them say they're going to eventually be tying all of their 3D apps to this service turns me off even further.

It's not hate. It's "Fed Up".

I'd comment on the purpose of this thread but DAZ dumped their video too fast.

I was gonna comment that I wondered how the folks who got Daz Studio free and the base figures free may now have to buy DS4 to get the genesis figures and how that was a total 360 for DAZ in the past few years...

Quote - I fail to understand why all the hate towards Daz,

You've never used hex, have you?  It's taken them how many years to get around to fixing some of the crashing problems (dunno, haven't tested the beta)?

Quote - > Quote - I fail to understand why all the hate towards Daz,

 

You've never used hex, have you?  It's taken them how many years to get around to fixing some of the crashing problems (dunno, haven't tested the beta)?

I have been testing the beta and for me it's been really solid. I've only crashed a few times and most of those were my fault (like forgetting to collapse dynamic geometry before export). ;)

Laurie

Quote - Stumbled across this clip on youtube. Don't know if it has been posted anywhere on this site. I must say I am impressed. Looks like the future is bright, if it comes to poser.

linky says video is private.  cant' watch it.

Quote - I have been testing the beta and for me it's been really solid. I've only crashed a few times and most of those were my fault (like forgetting to collapse dynamic geometry before export). ;)

Laurie

That's a start, but I still hate the included UVmapping.

Quote - > Quote - I have been testing the beta and for me it's been really solid. I've only crashed a few times and most of those were my fault (like forgetting to collapse dynamic geometry before export). ;)

Laurie

 

That's a start, but I still hate the included UVmapping.

I still use Roadkill for that

I just tried out uvmapper free the other day, it did the job, sort of. 

wings3d has a uv mapper built in

Thanks for the tech geek talk BagginsBill and others- I enjoy reading about it!

I am tempted to get into the hate/no hate Daz conversation-but since I don't take it seriously- I will abstain! I mostly wanted to see the video- and found it to be Private. That might be enough reason to "hate" Daz!  JUST KIDDING! :-)

When I asked if Miki might become a morph of the Genesis figure, DAS said it was possible; it depended on their talks with SM. It makes scent, why would SM make changes Poser to use the Genesis tech if DAZ wouldn't include SM figures in the Genesis figure?

Well, DS4 is out.  Has anyone got it and tried to play with the new figure?

Ok, I DLed DS4 (which from my first impression I didn't like using the least) and starting playing with gene, which I what I think we should all call it for short.

Mesh wise it all does seem to be one piece or at least everything got melded together when I exported it to hex.  Unfortuately I can't reexport it on this user account on my PC because DS4 can't find seem to find gene right now. 

Things I've noticed:

• Comes in at 75k polys
• Ears may have fewer polys
• lash mesh has changed
• Newer eye set up, but I can't test if it'll do freaky things in poser
• overall mesh density reminds me of V4
• for the moment there's no mat zone for eyebrows
• too many mat zones overall again
• has a male morph, one kid morph, one female morph, and several body shape morphs, but they look like they are for gene's male morph, and a few basic body shaping morphs
• My final impression of gene is that it is a quasi gender-neutral (more male than female) generation 4 model.

For the last thing, part of me wonders if this will take off at all.  It costs 50-100 bocks to get the wardrobe upgrade so your old stuff will work on gene (though all movement and styling morphs die in the upgrade).  It isn't usable in Poser.  And overall it seems like v4/m4 with a newer feature and no specific items to support it.

For the moment, I recommend staying with whatever you have, but I'm a bit biased.

I have read and made my conclusion.

75K poly's? what a pollution.
So many mat zones? what a pollution.

They will never learn.
They will never listen.

They can play solo for my part.

The mesh is not 75K polygons - it is about 17K, but with subdivision applied and (unless you change the export options) it's the subdivided mesh that exports.

Quote - For the last thing, part of me wonders if this will take off at all.  It costs 50-100 bocks to get the wardrobe upgrade so your old stuff will work on gene (though all movement and styling morphs die in the upgrade).  It isn't usable in Poser.  And overall it seems like v4/m4 with a newer feature and no specific items to support it.

For the moment, I recommend staying with whatever you have, but I'm a bit biased.

I tried to ask DAZ Randall whether or not the Auto fit would be ported to work in Poser. I never received an answer. Still, that's a consideration for me, even if Genesis does work in Poser.

I wouldn't count on it EClark1894, it's like asking SM to port the hair room to Daz, it's an entirely different code base, so an implementation from scratch is needed.

"I wouldn't count on it EClark1894, it's like asking SM to port the hair room to Daz, it's an entirely different code base, so an implementation from scratch is needed."

Correct!!!

Cheers

I'd comment on the purpose of this thread but DAZ dumped their video too fast.

Hmmm...i guess they ain't gonna ante up?

"I'd comment on the purpose of this thread but DAZ dumped their video too fast.

Hmmm...i guess they ain't gonna ante up?"

Hi
that Video was a posing comparison between v4 and the new"genesis" uberfigure
showing how this things bends where V4 Breaks

Frankly the video is now moot

DS4 is out
anyone can try the new figure against there copy of V4

and Draw their own conclusions.

 Edit:BTW

this quote is fromthe DS4 press release

over in the news section of CG society

"DAZ Studio 4 uses a new file format that is lightweight, easy to transfer and exists in an open format for easy editing within other 3D software. No longer satisfied with the inherent constraints of building upon a third-party platform, DAZ 3D has established a new, open platform. DAZ 3D has also announced that they will support any other vendors that offer this file format within their tools.

"

That Says it all IMHO

Cheers

Gotta link to the video.  i ain't installing ds4.

Quote - Gotta link to the video.  i ain't installing ds4.

Understandable   so there truly is no need for you to see the video
again....Moot.

Cheers

LOL!  Yer right.  Thing that bugs me the most about it is i feel daz is makin' a power play and slamming the door on a lot of people.  i guess power does that.  A company starts out noble and enlightened.  A few years pass old employees leave,  new employees join.  Cept the new employees don't see enlightenment as wisdom,  they see it as power.  And to multiply their power they form good ol boy networks.  Eventually the power corrupts them and in return they corrupt the noble and enlightened company.

Is that How AutoDesk,Apple, or MIcrosoft Began??.... "noble"..."Enlightened"
until Power & Greed  turned them into the Heartless& Monolithic Behemoths
they are today??

"Noble"&"Enlightened" people start Social & Civil movements for the good of Mankind
they dont Sell  the SAME Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "models" to a Very tiny&
Dedicated Community of Mostly Digital Hoarders on Fixed incomes

Seriously...
All Melodrama Aside Exactly what Door is being "Slammed on Alot of people"
In the world of technology Formats Change All the Time
I am AMAZED how Much Anxiety I see Exhibited by Some over this Reality
This latest Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "model is Just another option for Some users
not a Civil Right.

Cheers

Quote - ...

"DAZ Studio 4 uses a new file format that is lightweight, easy to transfer and exists in an open format for easy editing within other 3D software. No longer satisfied with the inherent constraints of building upon a third-party platform, DAZ 3D has established a new, open platform. DAZ 3D has also announced that they will support any other vendors that offer this file format within their tools.

"

That Says it all IMHO

 

Cheers

 

More specifically, the dsf files, that come with the DS4, look like plain json, which is nice, because there are a lot of tools supporting it. For example with python, a simple json.load("Genesis.dsf") suffices to read the whole figure (i tried this). Additionally, there are a lot of databases available, you could put your objects into, if you had a lot. Strange, that they did not name it ("a new fileformat that is lightweight...") since they surely did not invent it :-)

No anxiety on my part...i make my own figures.  i'm just looking out for my friends.

No sense gettin' all worked up over it ;).

Laurie

The only advantage of the genesis figure is, it looks like it takes the V4 textures. But if you take a closer look at the mesh, poor in the naughty area and also in the breasts. 

D|S 4, a no go for me.

Quote - Stumbled across this clip on youtube. Don't know if it has been posted anywhere on this site. I must say I am impressed. Looks like the future is bright, if it comes to poser.

The if it comes to poser, just got more if and may turn into never, the what's new in D/S4 page start with a very interesting statement.......

Quote - ##### Genesis™ Figures - Only in DAZ Studio 4

I've seen a pic of "new" figures coming out. I hate to say this, but while they may bend better than before, they still look like genesis versions of things we already have and have paid for. I didn't see anything that looked terribly shiny like "I really had to have it" ;). That's not to say that some things won't be totally new - I'm sure there'll be plenty - but in the beginning it looks like it'll be same old, same old.

Laurie

I think that says it all....

Wolf359

Just cause you can model and use EXPENSIVE 3D animation programs does not mean you can pick on us digital hoarders on a fixed income!

It clearly states in the US Declaration of Independance  that we have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of endless Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With Dragon renders!!

And you imply that Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With Dragons is not the summit of 3D art?? How can you say that?? You have hurt me to the quick- I must retreat behind my hoarded and never used 12 year collection of FreeStuff and go back to rendering Nekkid Posette with Plastic Hair Helmet in a Temple. Maybe then I can face the world again.....

:-).

Quote - Is that How AutoDesk,Apple, or MIcrosoft Began??.... "noble"..."Enlightened"
until Power & Greed  turned them into the Heartless& Monolithic Behemoths
they are today??

"Noble"&"Enlightened" people start Social & Civil movements for the good of Mankind
they dont Sell  the SAME Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "models" to a Very tiny&
Dedicated Community of Mostly Digital Hoarders on Fixed incomes

Seriously...
All Melodrama Aside Exactly what Door is being "Slammed on Alot of people"
In the world of technology Formats Change All the Time
I am AMAZED how Much Anxiety I see Exhibited by Some over this Reality
This latest Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "model is Just another option for Some users
not a Civil Right.

Cheers

Laurie

You mean your whole reason for 3D is not a realistic depiction of deep knee bends?

Quote - I've seen a pic of "new" figures coming out. I hate to say this, but while they may bend better than before, they still look like genesis versions of things we already have and have paid for. I didn't see anything that looked terribly shiny like "I really had to have it" ;). That's not to say that some things won't be totally new - I'm sure there'll be plenty - but in the beginning it looks like it'll be same old, same old.

Laurie

I'm very curious about how morphs are being handled, in a single-mesh figure which lacks defined groups of any kind.  How does that work?  To create morph targets, do you have to work with the entire figure mesh?  (Or does Daz even permit the creation of custom morphs?  )

I'm largely wondering about implications for mesh and morph processing using Poser Python, if Poser begins to handle this figure type.  Will one have to iterate over all vertices in the mesh to process a handful in the face?  Or is there some new method for specifying groups or regions, for the purpose of morph handling?

Quote - Wolf359

Just cause you can model and use EXPENSIVE 3D animation programs does not mean you can pick on us digital hoarders on a fixed income!

It clearly states in the US Declaration of Independance  that we have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of endless Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With Dragon renders!!

 

And you imply that Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With Dragons is not the summit of 3D art?? How can you say that?? You have hurt me to the quick- I must retreat behind my hoarded and never used 12 year collection of FreeStuff and go back to rendering Nekkid Posette with Plastic Hair Helmet in a Temple. Maybe then I can face the world again.....

:-).

 

 

Quote - Is that How AutoDesk,Apple, or MIcrosoft Began??.... "noble"..."Enlightened"
until Power & Greed  turned them into the Heartless& Monolithic Behemoths
they are today??

"Noble"&"Enlightened" people start Social & Civil movements for the good of Mankind
they dont Sell  the SAME Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "models" to a Very tiny&
Dedicated Community of Mostly Digital Hoarders on Fixed incomes

Seriously...
All Melodrama Aside Exactly what Door is being "Slammed on Alot of people"
In the world of technology Formats Change All the Time
I am AMAZED how Much Anxiety I see Exhibited by Some over this Reality
This latest Virtual "3D Nekkid Chick "model is Just another option for Some users
not a Civil Right.

Cheers

OK! OK! I know things look pretty bleak at the moment for us poser users and for our constitutional rights, but let's not panic.  If we can't have the newest, nubile, nekkid Vicky 5 (genesis...what ever) standing naked in front of a temple, we could....

Be creative! And have a nekkid Miki 3 (or even Antonia.. or if we dare..Angela!!) standing naked in front of a temple with a sword!! That oughtta get us back on the right track. Hell.. I can take the initiative  and make the sword ( and some really lame superheroine costumes too) and some other idiot will make the temple. It will all be just as it used to be.....Lot's of nubile, young naked ladies standing in front of a temple with  swords.  Aahhhh...

I'm very curious about how morphs are being handled, in a single-mesh figure which lacks defined groups of any kind.  How does that work?  To create morph targets, do you have to work with the entire figure mesh?  (Or does Daz even permit the creation of custom morphs?

I haven’t had the time or inclination to play with Daz Studio 4, but I’ve used several programs in which a figure that is undivided by “parts” can have morphs that are defined by “vertex maps.” You can cull a morph so that it doesn’t include unneeded vertices.

 What is this word you are using- "creative?" You have given me hope! :-) Hmmnn- I can model a little- probably could make a sword if I put my MIND to it. I KNOW I could make a temple-with columns even!  Maybe there IS hope :-)

OK! OK! I know things look pretty bleak at the moment for us poser users and for our constitutional rights, but let's not panic.  If we can't have the newest, nubile, nekkid Vicky 5 (genesis...what ever) standing naked in front of a temple, we could....

Be creative! And have a nekkid Miki 3 (or even Antonia.. or if we dare..Angela!!) standing naked in front of a temple with a sword!! That oughtta get us back on the right track. Hell.. I can take the initiative  and make the sword ( and some really lame superheroine costumes too) and some other idiot will make the temple. It will all be just as it used to be.....Lot's of nubile, young naked ladies standing in front of a temple with  swords.  Aahhhh...

Quote - I'm very curious about how morphs are being handled, in a single-mesh figure which lacks defined groups of any kind.  How does that work?  To create morph targets, do you have to work with the entire figure mesh?  (Or does Daz even permit the creation of custom morphs?  )

I'm largely wondering about implications for mesh and morph processing using Poser Python, if Poser begins to handle this figure type.  Will one have to iterate over all vertices in the mesh to process a handful in the face?  Or is there some new method for specifying groups or regions, for the purpose of morph handling?

in poser pro 2011 you can load ful lbody morphs for figures. so for example on Mr i can make a ear morph. and its teh full body and only the ears are changed. i can load this up in Poser.  

i dont understand why making a ful body morph would be a problem?

do we have 100% confirmation that Poser 9 will not support V5 and M5?

@iceboy
That would be PP2010 .
Works very well, use it all the time.

Quote - do we have 100% confirmation that Poser 9 will not support V5 and M5?

we don't even have 100% confirmation there will be a Poser 9.

(no, sly hints by baggins do not count. official announcements by SM and the team do.... you know the drill, press releases, etc. anything else is just rumour)

Quote - do we have 100% confirmation that Poser 9 will not support V5 and M5?

Right now, I'm actually hoping that poser won't support Gene.

The question is not about having morphs where some deltas are zero. The question is how many zeros. This is a question of space and time efficiency, not of possible versus impossible. A morph that only affects one vertex must still carry information about all the vertices of the group or section to which it applies. When a figure has only one giant group, then every morph, no matter how small, must list a value, in three dimensions, for every vertex. The question then is who has done the math? Will a fgure like Genesis with many morphs loaded take up way more space than before? RHaseltine indicated to me that there is some sort of grouping but no details were given. The grouping may be only an internal detail, for space savings. Without the morph data compression possible for groups of vertices, every morph becomes a full body morph, with data for every vertex. That is an extraordinary amount of data. My concern and that of others is that the designers are relying on tons more RAM and CPU out of laziness, rather than necessity. But we suspect there is more to it than has been described.

Quote - The question is not about having morphs where some deltas are zero. The question is how many zeros. This is a question of space and time efficiency, not of possible versus impossible. A morph that only affects one vertex must still carry information about all the vertices of the group or section to which it applies. When a figure has only one giant group, then every morph, no matter how small, must list a value, in three dimensions, for every vertex. The question then is who has done the math? Will a fgure like Genesis with many morphs loaded take up way more space than before? RHaseltine indicated to me that there is some sort of grouping but no details were given. The grouping may be only an internal detail, for space savings. Without the morph data compression possible for groups of vertices, every morph becomes a full body morph, with data for every vertex. That is an extraordinary amount of data. My concern and that of others is that the designers are relying on tons more RAM and CPU out of laziness, rather than necessity. But we suspect there is more to it than has been described.

You only have to store the deltas of the effected verts in a list, don`t you? If you dial that morph you iterate through the list find the corresponding vert in the base-mesh and apply the transform.

No?

No - a morph lists the new position of every vertex.

It is a series of XYZ coordinates, in the exact order of the original list of coordinates as given by the base geometry.

There is nothing in a morph obj file that correlates a delta with a vertex ID. If there was, we would not be raising the question.

So - if a morph file morphs a geometry containing 75,000 vertices, that morph file MUST contain the same 75,000 vertices, even if it only intends to move a few of them.

This is why, when you attempt to load an inappropriate morph file, you get the "Target geometry has wrong number of vertices" error.

When I say "MUST" contain all the vertices, I mean that in the absence of a new architecture for morphs. What I and others are asking is this: is there more to Genesis than the weight mapping - does this imply a new representation of morphs as well? Because if it does not include a new morph representation, then morphs are going to be way more expensive than they used to be.

Quote - > Quote - do we have 100% confirmation that Poser 9 will not support V5 and M5?

 

we don't even have 100% confirmation there will be a Poser 9.

 

(no, sly hints by baggins do not count. official announcements by SM and the team do.... you know the drill, press releases, etc. anything else is just rumour)

I honestly know nothing about V5/M5 in the next Poser. I'm just saying use your brain and stop assuming others don't have one.

erm you answering me or Iceboy? (if Ice, the answer makes sense, if me, it makes no sense)

Ack - sorry - trying to respond to both in a hurry.

To ice-boy - those who know are not allowed to answer. If I knew I could not respond. But I actually don't know the specific answer to will V5 work. 

To Kai - I agree my sly hints don't count and don't answer much.

Ha-ha-ha-

icing on the cake..

BB's hints :-)

From time to time, he lets off a bursting baloon.
From time to time, a teaser

From time to time, a double sided word, like a double sided sword.

Tension builds,
Every one on their ears,
Every one on their toes,

Untill? ?

Every single Poser freak? ? ?

NEEDS !!

WANTS !!

HAS TO !!

have PoserExteme 2025, Now!!!!!

No Tony,
not now!

Yesterday.

The week before............ :-)

Me thinks, he gets a tension builders fee :-) :-) :-)

Quote - No - a morph lists the new position of every vertex.

Only when in OBJ form. Poser stores a list of indexes and deltas, eliminating the need to store zeros (i.e. unmoved vertices).
It also keeps a note of the total number of vertices in the body part.