Hi, Well speaking as a man who's father is an anarchist, I would contend that "freedom" isn't what you think it is, but that's niether here nor there. I'm not going to criticise Thorne for shutting up shop, his site, his rules. though if it came to it, I probably would chip-in to his legal defense, I've done so with others, (most recently I contributed $100 to 2600 for thier legal bills) and I shall continue to do so, but again, at my discretion. As for "innocent until proven guilty" it's an ideal, not a guarantee, or a "get out of jail free" card. Those who mistake it for such are both dangerous and stupid. Like most of you I guess I have chose my battles carefully, becuase the state is all about maintaining the status quo, change is never good if it means that those in power may lose it. But when I take my stand it wil be because I believe it to be the right thing to do, and not becuase I think people are going to applaud me for doing it. "Outside the street's on fire In a real death waltz Between what's flesh and what's fantasy And the poets down here Don't write nothing at all They just stand back and let it all be And in the quick of a knife They reach for their moment And try to make an honest stand But they wind up wounded Not even dead Tonight in Jungleland" -Bruce Springsteen "Jungleland" later jb