It is being shown and it is awesome!  http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?63383-Make-any-clothes-fit-any-figure-in-Poser-2012

Very simple to get clothes from any figure to fit any other figure. Poser Pro 2012 is in beta at the moment but when it is released I have no doubt you will be seeing it all over the galleries.

And if you want to do nothing other than click a button, there will be weight mapped figures and clothing in abundance that you can buy.

Wardrobe wizard also converts regular clothing to weight mapping with just a click of a button for all supported figures.

If you do postwork as you claim you are already doing more work.

I am guessing here, but from your comments it seems you may think that weight mapping is something you do over and over to fix flaws. That is not the case, weight mapping is a permenant fix, it replace the current joint handling. So once you have fixed something it stays fixed. But no worries you will be able to purchase figures and clothing that are already weight mapped and you dont have to do anything at all.

In fact they have even taken ease of use a futher step. Now that Poser can save entire scenes complete in its native pz3 format I see no reason you should not be able to buy full scenes already set up lights and all, everything perfect. And all you have to do is push the render button. Is that easy enough?

Quote - Now ask... how many Poser users would use a ecosystem type thing in Poser.

welp, you just crapped on your whole argument about how Poser should never have interesting features

"welp, you just crapped on your whole argument about how Poser should never have interesting features"

 I think he was talking about easy, which doesn't rule out interesting*.* OTOH, it sounds like weight mapping will be fairly transparent to the 'average user' anyway. Very few people use all of the features of any moderately complex application - Poser is no exception. While I agree that some kind of landscape creation tools would be very nice, I'm not sure that building it into Poser would be worth the cost and addex programming complexity. Cut a deal with e-on and bundle a lite version of Vue with Poser. Both companies could benefit.

Quote - I think it's really unsettling how so many people on the DAZ forums are wetting themselves with joy over conformers that have just outright terrible fitting, even on the basic FBMs.  What's up with that.

90 % of everything is crap, yet much of it still sells. The good folks at DAZ forums are hardly special in this regard.

Quote - Cut a deal with e-on and bundle a lite version of Vue with Poser. Both companies could benefit.

Well for $99 USD there is THIS

no "ecosystems" but many users  prefer a purpose built outdoor landscape program that's poser friendly

Cheers

Quote - Cassandra quietly surveys the landscape, sighs, and moves on.....

There's more than a few other Greeks up in this piece watching at least with detached interest, but as for me - nothing more than that. Something else is itching at my head, though...

Before I unload it, just one thing to get out first - I intend to buy Poser 9 when it comes out, and I intend to snap up the appropriate DS4 plugins once I get my head used to the new UI.

So, let's get out some observations, shall we?

--

I see the same tired old crap from the same, tired lot of ignorant, passive-aggressive, hyper-focused fanboys/fangirls. 

I'd like to make at least one thing clear: In the time I've spent away from the whole thing, I've come to a rather startling conclusion... As long as my shit works the way I want it to, I don't give a rat's anal orifice what tools get used to do it. I stick with D|S because (well, up until DS4), I knew its guts intimately, and it gives me what I want without having a ton of work. OTOH, Poser has its points too - especially with IBL.

As for Genesis, truth be told? Dirt is (at R'otica) that the compatibility will be there, even if it means a Poser-specific figure to do it. I'd link to it directly, but the NannySquad would strike it down based on that link,. So, let's just say that you can find the evidence there if you look in the fora. You see, if anything these days gets made for a figure first, it's gonna be the naughty bits, so those folks who do make the aforementioned bits are supremely interested in compatibility, long before anyone else. 

As for which is better? Allow me to quote Coldrake:

"There is no war. Just a lot of outspoken people and a few annoyingly juvenile "my toy is better than your toy" people, (both Poser and DAZ Studio users)."

And yeah, I agree to this, big-time.

Lookit, campers - in the time I've been away, I've grown the hell up and ceased to care which one is top dog, and prefer to take the best of both as needs apply. If that's possible for me, then it is possible for you.

"As for which is better? Allow me to quote Coldrake:
There is no war. Just a lot of outspoken people and a few annoyingly juvenile "my toy is better than your toy" people, (both Poser and DAZ Studio users)."
And yeah, I agree to this, big-time."

Although I am not personally affected by any of this , for clarity  this is slightly different from the usual Poser/DS loyalist app war in one respect.

Many Vendors of poser products are concerned that they wont be able to create& sell clothing products for the latest super hyped figure                    "Genesis"
Since it is not "officially" supported by  SM poser 9/2012.
Apparently Many people here, for various reasons, will not or cannot run/learn/use Daz studio.
That is their personal issue to address.

This entire recent micro Drama is the culmination of the business decision DAZ made many years ago when decided to create their own Free "Figure Posing and Rendering" application to ensure that their content business had a platform  other than poser whose future appeared uncertain back at that time.
They spent Dev time on newer figure tech they now have a $$Commercial$$ version of their Figure/content program and they are moving in a direction they feel is best for them for the future.
 it is that simple IMHO .

No big evil plan to "takeover" anything or harm the poser community .
Just another small commercial entity conducting business in America.

Cheers

Quote - Can't believe I've never noticed before, but is Daz 3D, Inc. NOT a publicly traded company?   Just looked and couldn't find a stock symbol for them.

(btw - Smith Micro stock - SMSI @ $1.73 on Fri. -- down from its 52wk high of $17.03)

Bloomberg lists DAZ 3D, Inc as a private company.  Likely it's a closely held S or C corp.  Co-founders Dan Farr and Christopher Creek are President and EVP respectively.  Given the 90% drop in share price for SM, one shouldn't be surpirsed if DAZ picks up Poser for a song in a Smith Micro break up.

Post Sarbanes-Oxley, private companies have significant advantages, both cost and operational, over publicly traded ones.

For a publicly traded company, a 90% share price drop in less than a year is generally considered circling the drain.  Also, if the price drops below $1 a share, the company will be de-listed (no longer exchange traded - it goes on the pink sheets with the penny stocks from Vancouver).

Quote - Many Vendors of poser products are concerned {...}

To which you answered your own posed quandry, thus:

Quote - That is their personal issue to address.

Pretty cut and dried, TBH.

IMHO, they can do what folks do out here in the PC/Mac/Linux world... support what you can with the resources you have, maximizing your access to the market. For most folks, this means finding one platform and sticking to it. For others, this means supporting both. If you choose only one, then pay attention to requests from the customer base, and carefully look at what segment buys more of your stuff before making a decision. 

If you don't want to learn a given platform, then don't. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm here.

Quote - This entire recent micro Drama is the culmination of the business decision DAZ made many years ago when decided to create their own Free "Figure Posing and Rendering" application to ensure that their content business had a platform  other than poser whose future appeared uncertain back at that time.

Actually, it's the ongoing beating of a dead horse. :/

Quote - Can't believe I've never noticed before, but is Daz 3D, Inc. NOT a publicly traded company?   Just looked and couldn't find a stock symbol for them.

They're privately-owned. Dan and Chris founded it when they left Zygote back in 1999 or so.

Quote - For a publicly traded company, a 90% share price drop in less than a year is generally considered circling the drain.  Also, if the price drops below $1 a share, the company will be de-listed (no longer exchange traded - it goes on the pink sheets with the penny stocks from Vancouver).

Actually, that depends on a lot of factors. If SM has a ton of cash in the bank, they can hang on for a surprisingly long time. 

For starters, take a gander here:

 http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:SMSI

...and here:

http://www.4-traders.com/SMITH-SFTWARE-10868/news/SMITH-SFTWARE-Smith-Micro-Software-Reports-2011-Second-Quarter-Financial-Results-13737703/

It looks bad, but honestly, the economy has been the suck all around. Smaller companies just feel it worse than the big boys do. 

it also depends on the specific arrangement that took place when SM bought Poser - e.g. there's an option to buy it back.

Thanks Klebnor & Penguinisto for the additional illumination on the nitty-gritty machinations on the corporate back-story.

 … and Klebnor, is there a free link to the DAZ info at Bloomberg?  Didn’t spot an appropriate link to lookup a specific corporation at www.bloomberg.com.   (“DAZ 3D, Inc.” returned nada in their general search box)

Actually, I think, should the opportunity ever arise, Smith Micro could buy Daz for pocket change ;). SM is a big company with many softwares. Daz amounts to basically a mom and pop outfit.

Laurie

Don't forget they're actually DAZ 3D-Gizmoz now, and I'm sure the President is Eyal Gever and Dan Farr is the CEO. Well that's according to the press releases when DAZ and Gizmoz merged anyway.

Poser is the flea on the tail of the dog.

Developments in the mobile softward arena will determine the future of SM.

Given the share price drop and critical importance of future purchases by one major customer, I seriously doubt Poser comes up much at board meetings.

They're not really a very big company.  For 2010, the last full year available, the revenue was $131 million and the market cap was $62 million.  Definitely small cap zone.  Return on Equity was negative.  Results to date in 2011 are far worse.

By the way, in reviewing the financials, there are assets of $213 million, of which $94 million is goodwill.  Read their latest 10k for more.

I would be shocked if DAZ allowed itself to be acquired by a company with a balance sheet like SMs.  It would have to be an all cash deal - I can guarantee that much.

Nancy - I think this is about all you can get without terminal access:

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=10459931

Quote - SM is a big company with many softwares.

(the juvenile portions of the above comment were snecked for brevity, but let's address the whole wad anyway: )

SM has approximately $64m in Cash and short-term investments, $30m in operating expenses, and around $16m in outstanding liabilities (short-term debt such as expenses). They were $12m in the hole this past quarter on $18m in revenue.

ref: http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:SMSI&fstype=ii

Money-wise, if that kind of fiscal bleeding continues to go on (I sincerely doubt it does, but it'll be 6-8 months before they recover ), they can hold out for about a year, perhaps 18 months at their current loss rate.

I doubt it'll continue as a massive loss because the loss was sharp, which could indicate a lot of innocuous things. My guess is part Osborne Effect (in preparation for Poser 9/2012), part ramp-up expenses for launch (publishers, fulfillment, etc), and part lashing by Jefferies (which prolly shorted a bunch of SMSI right before they called it like they did).

OTOH, like you said - they have "many softwares", so it'd hard to tell how much impact Poser would have on the whole.

Size-wise, I would currently put SM at a rough approximation of 1.5-2x the size of DAZ, judging from what I recall of DAZ' figures back in 2005 or so (which means my guess may be way off by now, but it smells about right).

As for buying DAZ? That would require two things:

• DAZ would need to be in a state where they could actually be sold. Since DAZ isn't publicly traded, there's no stock to get controlling interest in. Basically, DAZ would have to go bankrupt, or be voluntarily put up for sale by the owners, or a court could order it. Otherwise, no dice.

• Smith Micro would have to recover from their current down-bounce, and fulfill their predicted bounce-back (forgot where I saw that prediction, but to be fair I wanted to include it).

All in all? Sorry, but nobody is going to buy anybody just yet. DAZ ain't big enough, and SM ain't profitable enough. Capiche?

(...I remember saying something about growing the hell up, but for some odd reason I think it was glossed over... )

Ok, big in comparrison to Daz then. Daz is a sidestreet shop compared. Sorry if you don't think so. I never said SM planned to buy Daz, that Daz was for sale or even that it was a possibility. I'm just sick of people being under the impression that Daz is a huge conglomerate of some sort. Not even close.

By the same token SM is no Microsoft either. But they are bigger than Daz. And if you explore closely, I'm sure they're not in any better shape than SM or any other company in the current economy that sells anything that's not a necessity. If Daz's behavior latey doesn't scream desperation, I don't know what does. Every company is just in about the same boat these days.

Laurie

I dunno about that, DAZ has an enormous income stream from brokering content sales.  SM does too, through ContentParadaise, but DAZ doesn't have to share it with weaker business units as SM surely does.

While I'm not exactly in love with DAZ's market tactics, I have no doubt they know how to fleece their flock all the way down to the skin, and I don't think they're being desperate or stupid at all.  I think they're making some very aggressive marketing moves, which I find personally distasteful, but I think are netting them major $$$.  The whole thing with selling a single FBM for list price of $50 (S4 for Genesis) is just setup for later sales.  I don't particularly like these practices myself, but they're in it to make money, I'm not too surprised.

I break for once my lurking because this discussion is interesting (and has nothing to do with 3D or Renderosity or whatever).

There is an important news about DAZ that apparently nobody noticed (like all important things). Please have a look at this thread on DAZ forums before reading on.

Now, let's do some work as intelligence analysts; let's ask ourselves: why? why DAZ is offering this sidegrade? why they are offering it now?

The first hypothesis is that they are getting ready to phase out Bryce and Hexagon.

Such move is completely sensible but it is also completely at odds with recent DAZ investments in Bryce (development outsourced to a consulting outfit) and on Hexagon (recent work on wxWidgets, the library underlying Hex, new release in beta).

Why gearing up to phase out programs which were developed just weeks ago? And why they did not so in the past? This change of strategy hints at some kind of dead branches pruning. In no way Bryce and Hexagon developments are going to create enough cashflow to repay for them. In the past revenues coming from other parts of DAZ business provided enough cash also for money sinkholes but apparently now the situation has changed and it has changed in the last few weeks.

What happened in the last few weeks? DS4 + Genesis. If we posit that sales of those items are way below DAZ management expectations (read pipe dreams) this action becomes understandable. There is less money than what was expected and therefore all money sinkholes must go. To prevent the foresable rage of users (already enough enraged) they are offering this side grade before the official plug pulling.

The second hypothesis is that they are not going to drop Bryce and Hexagon. Does this invalidate the above analysis? Interestingly not. In this case the sidegrade offer smells even more of lets-make-some-easy-quick-and-zero-cost-cash initiative. Again, something that does not have sense unless we posit that DS4/Genesis is not selling as expected.

In both cases we are left with the suspect that DS4/Genesis is not selling well. This conclusion is not outlandish: people are confronted with a new commercial strategy of higher prices, time limited offers and in general harsher commercial deals; in addition, there is a total puzzlment about Genesis in Poser. What is happening is what always happens in these cases: people halt their buy decision and wait for dust to settle down. The announcement of P9/2012 could not have come in a worse moment for DAZ and this tactic looks quite familiar because announcing new products to chill competitors sales was one of IBM deadly tricks.

DAZ started this war with a clear attempt at monopolizing the market and crushing Poser, SM has responded in a subtle yet quite harmful way. This conflict is going to be long and it is going to be bloody, especially for third parties. It can only end in two ways: either Poser goes down (sold by SM probably to DAZ and then promptly killed) or DAZ admits defeat, ports Genesis tech to Poser or backpedals on it (like it has silently done with Optitex dynamic clothes) and, in any case, stops its market grab attempt.

I don't know what will happen but the idea of living in DAZ controlled market, with new DAZ prices, with awfully buggy programs, DAZ track record of broken/unfullfilled promises, with things like the so called Content Management System (read placeholder for future DRM server) is not pleasant.

"DAZ started this war with a clear attempt at monopolizing the market and crushing Poser, SM has responded in a subtle yet quite harmful way. This conflict is going to be long and it is going to be bloody,............but the idea of living in DAZ controlled market, with new DAZ prices, with awfully.........  LOL

-The woods of buckland will burn..there wont be a shire pippen
-Merry whats his name-

The Horsemen took your lands and left you to scratch a living of rocks
GO !!!burn every village  leave NONE alive!!!!
-Sauramon the white-

We will Defend our Island  whatever the cost may be we will fight fields we will fight on the beaches we will fight on the landing grounds..we will never surrender!!!!
-Sir Winston Churchill-

I have to agree with you Alex. I also heard Daz was in financial trouble from someone else. 

Why else would their lackeys and buzzards be out in such earnest?

Where would their cash go?  They have a steady and regular income stream and frankly not all that much to spend it on, outside of their regular staff.  Their costs are 100% predictable, I can't see how they'd possibly be in financial trouble.  This release of new apps and Genesis stuff is essentially them printing money.

Hey I have herd that ds was in financial difficulty as well, dont remember where I read it though. One of these forums. LOL rumors abound.

None of it is important or much worthwhile.  Personally I am moving forward regardless of what either company does. I do believe there is going to be quite a demand for weight mapped figures and accessories, new or old.

Heh, you guys sure assume to know a lot of the financial issues behind the scenes at DAZ. Do us all a favor, go render something.

"Why else would their lackeys and buzzards be out in such earnest?"

DAZ's lackeys and buzzards? This entire thread is basically calling for a site war and every Genesis and Studio thread in this forum is a DAZ-bashing party.

Do us all another favor please, use whatever program fits you best and shut the hell up about the one you don't use.

SnowS

Quote - Heh, you guys sure assume to know a lot of the financial issues behind the scenes at DAZ. Do us all a favor, go render something.

 

"Why else would their lackeys and buzzards be out in such earnest?"

DAZ's lackeys and buzzards? This entire thread is basically calling for a site war and every Genesis and Studio thread in this forum is a DAZ-bashing party.

Do us all another favor please, use whatever program fits you best and shut the hell up about the one you don't use.

 

SnowS

 

I,m sorry hun did you think I meant you? Guess you must have, defensive are we? :lol:

I think you mean anyone who prefers DAZ Studio and doesn't gush over Poser, yeah.

No just the trolls.

If you can show me where a DAZ Studio user has come in here and called Poser supporters things like "lackeys" and "buzzards", and constantly complained about how awful Poser is and how Smith Micro doesn't care about it's customers, wants to create a monopoly, take over the world, etc, I will agree they are a troll.

oh here we go

enough. stop now. this is where the fight is really taking off. how about not even going there? why don't we all step back from the brink, take a breath and let it go?

not that I'll be listened to....

I agree, I wouldn't have spoken up if people could just look forward to Poser without criticizing Studio and DAZ at every opportunity. Of course, as soon as I do, now we're all supposed to play nice.   ;)

that means STOP and not try and get the last word in. facepalm

Quote - > Quote - Cassandra quietly surveys the landscape, sighs, and moves on.....

There's more than a few other Greeks up in this piece watching at least with detached interest, but as for me - nothing more than that. Something else is itching at my head, though...

Before I unload it, just one thing to get out first - I intend to buy Poser 9 when it comes out, and I intend to snap up the appropriate DS4 plugins once I get my head used to the new UI.

 

So, let's get out some observations, shall we?

--

I see the same tired old crap from the same, tired lot of ignorant, passive-aggressive, hyper-focused fanboys/fangirls. 

I'd like to make at least one thing clear: In the time I've spent away from the whole thing, I've come to a rather startling conclusion... As long as my shit works the way I want it to, I don't give a rat's anal orifice what tools get used to do it. I stick with D|S because (well, up until DS4), I knew its guts intimately, and it gives me what I want without having a ton of work. OTOH, Poser has its points too - especially with IBL.

As for Genesis, truth be told? Dirt is (at R'otica) that the compatibility will be there, even if it means a Poser-specific figure to do it. I'd link to it directly, but the NannySquad would strike it down based on that link,. So, let's just say that you can find the evidence there if you look in the fora. You see, if anything these days gets made for a figure first, it's gonna be the naughty bits, so those folks who do make the aforementioned bits are supremely interested in compatibility, long before anyone else. 

As for which is better? Allow me to quote Coldrake:

"There is no war. Just a lot of outspoken people and a few annoyingly juvenile "my toy is better than your toy" people, (both Poser and DAZ Studio users)."

And yeah, I agree to this, big-time.

Lookit, campers - in the time I've been away, I've grown the hell up and ceased to care which one is top dog, and prefer to take the best of both as needs apply. If that's possible for me, then it is possible for you.

Here you go

No offense, but who are you to come in and tell us to stop our discussion? Let a mod come in, and when they ask me to stop, they can also tell everyone else to cool it and not attack other forums, companies, and people who happen to support a different piece of software than Poser.

Quote - No offense, but who are you to come in and tell us to stop our discussion? Let a mod come in, and when they ask me to stop, they can also tell everyone else to cool it and not attack other forums, companies, and people who happen to support a different piece of software than Poser.

you mean like this?

"

Heh, you guys sure assume to know a lot of the financial issues behind the scenes at DAZ. Do us all a favor, go render something.

"Why else would their lackeys and buzzards be out in such earnest?"

DAZ's lackeys and buzzards? This entire thread is basically calling for a site war and every Genesis and Studio thread in this forum is a DAZ-bashing party.

Do us all another favor please, use whatever program fits you best and shut the hell up about the one you don't use.

SnowS"

you just did.

no we can all carry on screaming at each other. or we can all act like adults. I called for calm. nothing more.

if you've got a problem with that, I seriously don't care.

Stepson, are you quoting that as an example of a DAZ troll? That's exactly what I was saying, use whatever software works for you and pipe down about the one you don't. That is no troll.

"you just did."

Yeah maybe I did, but I did it in an attempt to stop the attacks on one side. As soon as I did, you come in and tell me to stop it. Why, so everyone can resume the usual DAZ-is-evil talk without interruption?

I see the same tired old crap from the same, tired lot of ignorant, passive-aggressive, hyper-focused fanboys/fangirls. 

That is. You will never see me at daz talking shit like that and that is not the first in the last weeks. Of course they wouldnt allow it which is exactly my point there is no peace here because anyone can come in talking crap just to be offensive. Well I dont mind falling on my sword to make a point.

He was talking about both Poser and DAZ Studio fanboys as far as I could tell.

Quote - Stepson, are you quoting that as an example of a DAZ troll? That's exactly what I was saying, use whatever software works for you and pipe down about the one you don't. That is no troll.

 

"you just did."

 

Yeah maybe I did, but I did it in an attempt to stop the attacks on one side. As soon as I did, you come in and tell me to stop it. Why, so everyone can resume the usual DAZ-is-evil talk without interruption?

read back. I did'nt say ANYONES name. if you think it's you, then the shoe fits, huh? I was talking to everyone. not just you. don't assume and fly off the handle.

But funny how you sat through three pages of this before saying anything, then I show up, admittedly angry and tired of this crap, and all of a sudden all must be quiet. Thinking it was me was a safe assumption.   :)

there you go assuming again.

Thanks then, I look forward to seeing you take the inititive to facilitate peace in the next anti-Genesis thread without any intervention from me.   :)

sigh

Laurie

It's as if irony had never been invented.

I didn't much care for Stephanie 3 (her head is weird and too big), so I don't really care if I miss out on version 4 because I'm a Poser user.

I've spent thousands of dollars on Poser and items to use in it.  I'm not about to switch to another program that has an interface that I find alien, and where the majority of my content doesn't work.

And I can't see a huge number of content creators continuing to support Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Pro 2010 and 2012 and Daz|Studio.  Content creation sales isn't exactly the most lucrative job and unless you are selling your models I doubt very much that many make enough to support themselves or their family.

So I don't see a problem. Let Daz shoot themselves in the foot by going exclusive to their own program. It won't last very long because they will eventually see that a good percentage of their profits came from Poser users.

Quote - Heh, you guys sure assume to know a lot of the financial issues behind the scenes at DAZ. Do us all a favor, go render something.

 

"Why else would their lackeys and buzzards be out in such earnest?"

DAZ's lackeys and buzzards? This entire thread is basically calling for a site war and every Genesis and Studio thread in this forum is a DAZ-bashing party.

Do us all another favor please, use whatever program fits you best and shut the hell up about the one you don't use.

 

SnowS

UH, NO.

As the ORIGINAL POSTER, I happened to see a very open split between DazStudio users and Poser users (more so than before) because of the use of badges/banners whatever. (Very good marketing as was mentioned here)

Please read the very first message. There was no calling for the troops to rally. I just see a more distinct polarizing of Poser/DazStudio users than before.

So no, there is no/was no calling for a site war, program war or any kind. Just that I kind of see one on the horizon.

No.

Hi Acadia,

Are you sure you mean Stephanie 4?

Hasn't S4 been out for years, IIRC shortly after V4 was released, and is at least as compatible as V4 is? Nobody is missing out on it!

Stephanie 4 has only been out for about a year...the Kids4 came before she did and of course we're still waiting for David 4.

Laurie

Quote - No just the trolls.

actually you're doing a pretty great job there, hope this helps