I wanted to say t h i s for sometime: Orio/squitty said something in the comments about the superb picture "Walk in Faith" made by zebrazool, which I liked very much: "Hi, great composition, it's nice to see someone who obviously takes care of actually COMPOSING an image... too many people seem to think that it's enough to put together a couple of terrains, a tree and a nude Poser figure to make a picture... without even taking care to tune terrain's preset materials frequency or resolution!" He is A B S O L U T E L Y R I G H T !!!!! Very often I am really angry about these semi-pornographic pictures which are often clicked because one can look at some flesh, but which are also often without any composition! I think showing nudes is very nice but only in those cases where a nude body makes a sense for dramaticism - like in the theatre - all the rest is pornographic! From my point we should improve our VUE ablilities because the vue gallery is the gallery for vue pictures and there are a lot superb picture even from freshmen/freshwomen who are using VUE 2.1! Let's concentrate on vue! Okay - I left my steam go! Hope that I've not been to nasty! A somehow angry Bernie ;-(

and I found it interesting when I work so hard getting everything "just so" that I"m not composing anything 8 then again.. if you go back far enough in the various galleries.. there's quite a few that have been obviously worked on.... sigh never mind... Oh.. Sharen & Mike! second render in progress 8 ) Cheers

I've read some on how important composition is to a still scene (drawing, photo, painting, etc.). But what about us hobbyists who have no training--or talent--for composition? Heck, I'm not even sure what it is (yes, I am not afraid to admit I'm an ignorant slob...probably cuz my wife's been calling me that for 10 years). If you artists had to recommend any ONE book on the subject, what would it be? Thanks in advance.

Dear Jackson, I myself am a hobbyist as well but/and also a hobbyist can have an opinion. Composition is for me a kind of feeling which I follow without counting on any rules. For me I want that I like my pictures and that is enough for me! I publish here at renderosity's vue gallery because here I found alot of people who have the same feelings - but - and this is the somehow fertile aspect - everybody still feels different! So everybody can tell you his/her feelings as comments in the gallery. Yours, Bernie

Thanks Wizzard...can't wait

The Vue manual has a nice little primer on composition. Most art history and theory books discuss composition, but the best discussions on the subject (IMO) usually appear in books on photography (that's speaking as someone who can both draw, paint and photograph, although I am no Michelangelo or Daguerre, mind you).

Hi Jackson, You can't go wrong with thip's suggestion, and try the numerous photography books that are available. I will just say that personal taste for art will always cause argument...one persons art is another persons stack of bricks in the middle of a room ;) One other thing that I feel that is very important in creating good art in general, is to learn how to become a perfectionist. If something does not look right, change it. The downside of that is that you never get to finish a picture becuase 2 hours, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years down the line, that picture that looked perfect just after it finished rendering does not look quite as good now! Cheers http://www.the3dscene.com

Thanks for the tips, all. I started re-reading the Vue manual section on composition and it says, "no rules will ever replace artistic talent." That shoots me in the a**. I need rules, as I have no artistic talent. (I'm tone-deaf, too.) Guess I'll have to dig up my old photography books and see if I can find anything there. Thanks.

Hi Bernieloehn, First thing I want to say is that I respect your opinion. But to be honest, I don't understand why you are angry. I think to most (all ?) people try to make nice images. Some try to make art, some try to make pictures. Some you will like, some you will dislike. But I don't think that this is a reason to get angry. If you don't like a picture someone made, that tell the person how to make the picture better. And if the person wants to get better and agrees with you, than that is ok. And when the person disagree it is also ok. But the main thing is that people should be allowed to make their own work. If someone only trows some terrain, some trees and a nude into a picture and that is it ... ok, that that is it. If that person likes it (side remark ... I don't mean adult oriented material ... I think this should not be posted in renderosity, because there are other means to show that) then that is as it is. Try to point out the problems in a picture, but keep in mind that most people here (I presume) are only hobbiests (and some are very very good :) ) and they try to make nice images and even try to get better (I know I am) so I don't see why anyone should get angry. I think that the main reason I like Vue is that I can concentrate on make nice pictures that I like. I am glad when other people like my pictures also and I put some time into it the pictures. But it is still a hobby and when I think a picture is finished and I like it ... then I am a happy man :). And it is ok for everyone to tell me that it can be improved (because I like to learn). But "complaining" about pictures alone is not a way to make it better (IMHO). Sorry for the long reply, Bye, Angelo ps. The URL points to my pictures. No real site yet, but hopefully that will change (soon).

Artists Magazine http://www.artistsmagazine.com/ BOOK: Artists Design: Probing The Hidden Order http://www.hiddenorder.com/ Emerald Ridge High School Digital Photography Lessons http://www.puyallup.k12.wa.us/high/emerald/courses/digpho/index.htm

I don't think that there is a relation between pornography and composition. Very well composed pictures can be pornographic of course. Perhaps one can say that a nude girl with some rudimental vegetation around is just a pin-up.

Sorry to say so but it seems to me that the previous nude model subject and the tendency expressed by some to sway opinion or to control others peoples ability to post their attempts at art is none other than the tendency toward censorship. Here is what I know: In a very general way, the law courts in most countries (but definitely not all) will protect a persons right to express themselves artistically even in sometimes provocative or unprofessional or amateurish artistic ways provided they are doing so within a community that has gathered to view such work when it may incidentally contain nudity - or even pornography. It is the community that decides. I know of only a few so-called artistic communities that prohibit nudity in their art. I know of some (too many) communities in history and at present that started by prohibiting nudity and eventually graduated to prohibiting many other kinds of thought and behavior including, eventually, certain kinds of people altogether. This tendency is fundamentalist extremism and is far too black and white thinking for any self respecting artist community. For a person to label anothers artistic attempts as pornographic is mind reading at best and, I think, very dangerously out of line. I might be wrong, but I dont think this forum wants to prohibit nudity however unpolished its presentation may be - from these pages. If that happens, Im out of here. There is a kind of international community standard here that seems acceptable to these folk who live in the present, who are tolerant of others and who by and large are not offended by nudity. This, bernieloehn, my friend, is the rough approximation of how democracy (small d) works. . In fact, it even protects your ability to say what you have said. Not too bad, yes? That it thrives in this little international community is the marvelous fact! You can be assured that there are countries and communities in some countries where this forums tolerance of nudity is not welcome. But I wonder if you would really be more comfortable or welcome there than you are here. History shows that there is no end to censorship once instituted. You might want to check out the recent US history of the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts successful efforts in fighting censorship as well as Larry Flynts Hustler magazines successful efforts at the same. Then again, you might not. Both cases are very interesting to me, as they have beaten down a pervasive kind of mind control. I happen to think that one of the many outcomes and even purposes of art is to provoke thought. And so, I just might post a nude or two. Soon as I can get Poser to work properly with Vue here Now back to work making art, thank you for your indulgence on this important (to me anyway) matter.

Dear riversedge, I am the last who wants to control minds and I am as well the last who wants to tell other people what art is or what art is not. I just felt that I should tell you what I am thinking. As you will - I will be certainly out of here when any restrictions would be established. I like this open minded forum as it is! Sorry that my English is not as good that I can express myself the same way as would be possible in German. You are right - back to work! Waiting for nudes LOL ;-) Bernie

Bernie, Isn't the internet great!? Good Luck and best wishes and may all of your future nudes have exquisite artistic merit! Riv

Oh yes, and thank you for enduring in a language that is not your own. Appreciated. If this forum was in German, I regrettably, could not be a participant at all. Riv

Dear Riv, somwhen I will publish some nudes containing pics because I am going to buy poser4 - so wait and see. Bernie ;-)

Hey, that's not a boy! These tight slips are really uncomfortable. However this one looks sooo sexy!

Here is my contribution to the 'nude'-theme. 'In the heat of the night' Nudes with composition (I hope so) ... dedicated to Bernie and Rivers.

Well, really really lovely! Thanks.

Hopefully the guy (policeman?) will not find them before tey're finished! LOL Very nice! Bernie ;-)

He is the father of the male lover and he'll find them early enough (or too early - this depends on the point of view).

Love the lighting in this scene, Ona; seems very natural. But the texture on the cat makes it appear like tree bark, probably not what you had intended. :)

The cat is - like all characters on the picture - inhabitant of Gilgat, which is placed in a different kind of world than ours. I have no complaints if there is a similarity between this cat and a rat or a 'zwysel'.