Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I'd say a couple of things:

1.  Oh, you noticed we were missing?  Way too little, way too late.

2.  You might want to wave the white flag without coming in here and labeling people "well meaning" liars.

 

I wouldn't say you are "missing" we still enjoy a very good level of business and it can't be all from people who only use DS.

I didn't call anyone a liar. But honestly thinking you know an answer does not actually mean you know the factual answer. There are a few DAZ friendly faces here that try their best to help out.  But they do not have all the inside knowledge and answers that a true employee like myself will have. That's all I meant.

 

So the head of DAZ marketing came here to be a "good-natured source of information"  If it wasn't affecting DAZ's bottom line, you wouldn't be here and we both know it.

---I am not the head of marketing, I am the head of Content Management, a Product Evangelist and the head of Content beta-testing. My being here really has little to do with our "bottom line" as you put it. I have regularly browsed these forums as a part of my job and I grew weary of the misinformation, so I thought I would help provide accurate information. I actually started doing this under my own inititive and without official orders telling me to do it. Im not here to convince you to frequent our store and im not really here to "convince" you of anything else. Im just here saying: "Hey... we dont have to fight lets talk."

From my viewpoint, Genesis is causing everyone to re-look their relationship with DAZ.  I know I have.  And my buying habits have adjusted accordingly.  And I am sure Rosity & RNDA have sent DAZ thank-you notes.

---Im not sure our sales figures or anyone else's will back up your theory. There is undoubtably uncertainty amongst the Poser Faithful and we would obviously like everyone to remain customers, and there is no question that the Poser community having more compatibility would increase our revenue.  But this "Rift" between us is being un-naturally perpetuated by invested elements on both sides and i weary of it.

My reevaluation includes the company's attitude toward me, the customer.  Your company is from my perspective, very contemptuous of it's customers.  You can be that way if you are Apple.  DAZ isn't Apple.  You have no reality distortion field.

I am buying less & less at DAZ & I want you to understand why, and possibly take it to a staff meeting.  Probably not, because god knows, DAZ doesn't make mistakes.

It isn't Genesis.  For me, that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

When I talk about being contemptuous of your customers, let me show you a pattern of conduct......

1a.  "We are working on the installers..."  Please.  Just stop.  DAZ has been telling customers that since at least 2005 that I am PERSONALLY aware of.  We both know that the company has no intention of changing the installer philosophy or fixing the old installers, so just stop already.  That is pretty contemptuous.

---I cant make you trust what I say in this short contact we have here. All I can tell you is that we are under new management and we are taking things like this very seriously now. The whole of the Engineering and Web teams are dedicating all resources at the moment to a complete overhaul of our store and creating a new download and install experience. We have a new team of employees writing metadata and updating product installers in preparation for the new system. Product managers and department heads are doubling up on their normal jobs to tackle documentation, education and New user experience. There is a hell of a lot going on here and its stuff that has needed to be done for a VERY long time. You dont have to believe... but it is true, nonetheless.

1b.  When someone from customer support tells me to buy a PC when I gripe about OS9 installers doesn't build any good will.  Just sayin'.....

If you use installers, why, oh why, can't you use one that FOLLOWS THE OS USER GUIDELINES that Apple & MicroSoft set.

---You are preaching to the choir. I have personally had problems with Mac installers and I work here. There is no excuse for why we didn't get to it earlier,  Its just a massive undertaking.  As I mentioned, above, we have an actual team of new workers doing only this.

Just for the record, we did use recommended installers, but with the change first from OS9 to OSX and then the more recent change to Lion, those standards simply changed. We were not the only software company affected by it, I have a stack of software that I cant use anymore.

2a.  DS4 - Why do you ask for feedback if you don't use any of it. Your beta folks told you they hated the new UI.  Did you make any changes? Nope. 

That is pretty contempuous.

---Not all the beta users "hated it" Many raved about it. I was still a civilian (non-employee) when I was first exposed to it and I loved it immediately. Your information is inaccurate.  As a DAZ 3D Manager who happens to be in charge of half of our beta testing I can tell you that we could not possibly take Beta feedback any more seriously. The problem is that not every issue that is discovered can be fixed, or at least not within the limits of the development timeline. Our issue has always been that we try to put too many features in and we get excited when we can offer more and more functionality.... this has often left us with a lot of stuff that only worked at 90% when we could have had less stuff that worked at 100%. This is one of the first issues identified and addressed by the new management and we have been doing our best to catch up for a good while now. We still have a long road ahead but its improving.

2b.  Documentation.  How is that Carrera 8 manual coming? Or the Bryce manual, Or the Hexagon manual.  Do you see a pattern here?  My reason for ignoring DS4 isn't the crappy UI, that is an added bonus; it is the fact that my time is valuable, and I don't have time to waste figuring things out through trial and error. 

---No argument from me or anyone else here. We know we need docs and we are actually writing them as our highest priority. I wasn't here for the promise of Carrara Docs so I cant speak to that... but I can speak to the current effort. You can monitor the docs as they are constructed daily at Http://docs.daz3d.com. Actually, they may not visibly change every day because a lot of it isn't visible to everyone while its worked on... but they are being worked on

No documentation = contempt.

---Actually, No Documentation = poor prioritization and lack of resources.... but we are on it.

2c.  Software as perpetual beta.  Go buy a copy of "The Mythical Man Month"  Make your software manager read it.  Adjust software development accordingly.  Avoid "cool".  Cool is bad.  Your programmers aren't that good.  Really, they aren't.  Reliablity is good.  DAZ should try it sometime. 

---He actually has that book... not kidding. Cool isnt bad. Cool is cool. Where would we be without cool? Cool and reliable are not mutually exclusive. DS4 is without doubt the LEAST buggy and most stable version of studio we have ever released. It is a provable fact. We have less bugs as a percentage of installed base than ever before in our history.

Releasing a half-finished product = contempt.

---Calling our product half finished is not very nice either... its at least 75% finished.  In all seriousness, DAZ Studio will never be "finished" we will continue to improve it whenever we can. If we can add something useful or fix a flaw, we will not hesitate to update the software. We are not in love with our distribution process and we are trying to fix it, but we will keep working to refine the platform.

As a side-note, nothing screams amature quite like releasing software without documentation.  Kinda difficult to incorporate it into work-flows without it.

Moving on to content.....

---Great. I am the Manager of Content. I will likely have much more complete information on this topic.

3a.  Making us wait 18 months or so for M4 after the release of V4.  Contempt.

---Why do you think that? Do we not have the freedom to create and sell what we please? Its a little harsh to call that contempt. We just released V5, what if we never make M5?, how is it not the choice of a business to make what it wishes? Is it contempt if McDonalds doesn't serve Lasagna? I am more than willing to cop to issues we suffer from at DAZ 3D, but you lost me on that one. 

3b.  After releasing M4 - No clothing content, but one of the first items was a tutu.  Really?  A tutu.  That wasn't funny.  That was giving the users the finger.  Someone should have been fired over that.

---There were people who found that funny... I wasn't around for this so I cant speak to why it was what it was, but I can tell you that M4 was well received, sold well, and a lot of people have that tutu. Ive seen it on the Genesis Freak a lot more often than I care to.

4.  Ask some old-timers about the swine-flu sales pitch.  Another idea that should have gotten someone fired.  Again, contempt.

--I heard about this. What can I say, people make mistakes. we aren't robots. I cant respond or defend as I really dont have all the facts on it, though.

Now for a quick dash over to the forums.....

5a.  Some of the biggest S&*$ stirrers on the DAZ forums have userids start with DAZ.  Sorry, but it had to be said.  They will start a thread and do a hit & run.

A suggestion.  Don't let anyone with a DAZ id respond to a heated thread without running it through a supervisor first.  A little sanity check wouldn't hurt.

5b.  Grow a thicker skin.  DAZ is supposed to be a business.  Whining about "negativity" makes DAZ sound like an emo teeanager that has been told to take out the trash.  Brick-bats come with the territory, & if DAZ can't handle it, perhaps the forums aren't a place for anyone with a DAZ at the beginning of their userid.  Notice that the only SM person that haunts forums is your counterpart - Mr. Cooper.  Everyone else stays far, far away.  Probably because they are busy making sure that their product is interoperatable with other 3d products & has documentation.  Just sayin'......

---The forums at DAZ 3D are different than these forums because this is a community marketplace... there is no responsible corporate entity. Do you really think SM employees aren't here? im sure they are but as this isn't "their" forum they dont identify. We go to the forums often to communicate with customers, see what people are saying and interact. Many of us do it on our own time at home to boot. Its not that DAZ 3D cant take the heat anyway... its that we dont believe most of our users want to deal with it.  We are acting on the behalf of the average joe who just wants to find out the best shader setting for the bumper of his 57 chevy and not get tied up in a tangled mass of Ugly.

5c.  Fanbois - Threat or menance?

Then there are your fanbois.  I would highly recommend that you get your PAs some customer service training.  As a minimum, "How to win friends & influcence enemies".  You have PAs whose attitudes on the forums cost you sales.  If they sell on DAZ, they reflect you.  Whether you like it or not.  So talk to them already.

---First off... can we stop spelling it with an "i" Ive always hated that.... but I digress. The PAs are not employees they have all the rights on our forums that anyone else does and we have no extra control over them just because they decided to submit a product. If they cause a ruckus, they will be asked to stop just like anyone else... unless its Stonemason... he can do whatever he wants. ;)

Now lets look at the website.  AAGGGHH!!! MY EYES!!!!!

6a.    If your customers tell you it causes migraines, YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK INTO IT. Telling paying customers "too bad" doesn't get them to come by more often.  Again, what was that word again?  Oh yeah, contempt.

---Eh... this is subjective. The old website had three color schemes and the forum still does, so you can pick one you like best in your personal options. The newer web design cant be changed... but what is it exactly that is garrish or Migrane inducing? It looks like a pretty standard web experience to me. The front page is too new to have options just yet, but we are replacing the entire store so perhaps the new one will be more agreeable to you.

If it is the color white you dont like, I can only suggest that you turn down the brightness on your monitor as there is a lot of white on the net. Actually now that I look at the page more closely... its a light gray. Maybe if you were more specific about what is hurting your eyes I could better respond. I am not aware of this customer migrane issue you mention and this is the first I have heard of it.

6b.  Artzone.  Enuff said.....

---ArtZone never panned out to what it was meant to be.  We own that.  There are new people with new ideas to replace it and I have faith that what grows from its ashes will be even better than the original concept.

And now a cautionary tale....

Once apon a time there was an gaming company called GDW.  In addition to many fine wargames, they made a Role Playing Game called TRAVELLER.  It was very, very successful. 

---I loved Traveller. I still play it on rare occasions when im around my high school cronies or at convention.

In the fullness of time, the people that worked at GDW moved away from the Traveller game system to a different gaming system that was based off another RPG they sold, Twilight 2000.  They decided that it would be easier for GDW to convert the Twilight 2000 rules set to Traveller.  That way, they would only have to maintain one set of rules.  The ungrateful customers would have none of it however.  They felt that if they wanted to play Twilight 2000, they would.  Well, GDW ignored their customers and released Traveller: The New Era.  They "vaulted" the old product & henceforth there would only be TNE.  Shortly thereafter GDW went out of business because, quite frankly TNE was a piece of crap (I was there - It is always bad when the product was referred to as the "New Error" - It is still called that by the way.)

20 years on people still play Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, and a host of other game systems.  The TNE version.  Still dead.

Just sayin'.....

That example is not the best one for our situation. This is no more appropriate of an example... but there was also a company called Apple who dared do things different and was told for its entire existence that it had better get with the program and do things the IBM way or the Microsoft way or it was going to wither away to nothing. Its most unsuccessful period was when it tried to conform to the beige box paradigm. It wasn't until Jobs came back and dared strike out on a new direction that the company found its calling. People thought he and his new computers were bonkers. Now they certainly had their giant warts.... no floppy drive, weird mice, candy colors... but by god they were COOL. Yeah, I said it. COOL. Even as late as a year and a half ago people were calling them the stupidest company ever... nobody wanted an ipad. "LOL... iPad what a dumb name... sounds like a feminine product". "Apple is gonna bite it bigtime on this one"

We know how that turned out. Now, i am far from saying that we are Apple. I personally would call anyone else doing that a Blasphemer... so apologies. My point is that we can all find cautionary tales or examples to buff up our points of view.

The facts are that DAZ 3D is not a room full of fools flailing wildly in the dark and hoping to hit something. We are purposefully engaging in the business of advancing the technology even if we have to go it alone. We have the hope of hopes that we can improve things in this arena to make things better for all digital artists. Honestly, from most quarters, the feedback has been really, really great overall. The one blemish is that some of you love your Poser so much that you feel the need to defend it and fight on its behalf.

Im saying... you really dont. 

We love Poser we want Poser users in our community. We are saddened and sickend by the notion that we have to even to say that. We dont want to ban people and censor posts. We dont want to have to deal with ugliness, who does? 

I am more than happy to engage you or anyone else in rational and civilized discussion but you have to admit you were unnecessarily snarky here. Cant we can do better? I am sure you have your scars from dealing with things in the past, but DAZ 3D is OBVIOUSLY moving in a new direction and things are changing for the better. This isnt Team Edward Vs Team Jacob. This isnt Religion, Politics or the big game on Sunday. We just want to make some friggin cool art.