Thanks Philc..as always you are a fountain of knowledge, i hadnt considered  using ERC with magnets, often times the simplest solution is the best solution and easiest overlooked...

 i am familliar with both techniques and will try both for evaluation, however i still have this nagging need to understand helper bones and will continue the persuit of this knowledge... im sure you have had unanswered questions in the past and understand where im comming from...

I'm in awe of your contributions to Poser and follow your efforts closely...

:O)

Y'all have a great day.