I am having some very odd issues with a material and figure I made. Pre Sr2 I had no issues at all. Now....... well, let me show you the problems.

The image shown here is the oddity. The head and the body are the exact same material with the exception of the color and displacement maps that they are calling on.

Show the same screngrab for the head?

edit: I will grab the mat for the head...

Yeah, show the head material. There has to be something different.

Laurie

But I did have one other oddity with this figure which i will describe in a moment... her is a render pre patch

Originally the figure was rigged in Poser2012. But, once opened in Poser 6 i was getting one piece of the figure missing. The bone and the internal name were the same... only on the lIndex1, normals were facing outward.

So to fix this I reimported the original obj in poser 6... opened the setup room and double clicked the figure from the library to have the rig and all it's properties, basically, reijected back into the obj. I save to the library. Everything seems to work fine. I open in poser 2012, make my edits, save to the library... the finger is missing again once opened in poser 6.

So, I basically repeated the process again, this time, not saving back to the library in p9. Now, after the patch, it doesn't matter if I save it back to the library in p9, it's not fixing it like it did the first roound. I thought if I did it I could at least supply a p6+ and P9 version.

I will probably do what I did the first time in p6, import the original obj, go to the setup room, inject the figure, save under a new name, and see if that fixes it. But I wanted to check here to see if someone sees anythin odd with the material.

Cause I will say this.................... If I apply the head mat to ALL the figure... the maps render correctly, but of course the head color map doesn't fit the body.... BUT as soon as I change the color and disp maps back to the body textures, WITHOUT changing ANYTHING else in the material nodes.... I get this oddity happeing again.

no... I did not submit a ticket. I will not resort to uninstalling and reinstalling and reapplying sr patches yet....

kinda glad i havent had time to update yet...:O)

But, it has fixed the missing lIndex1 that was originally showing ONLY in poser 6. Pre patch the digit was missing, post patch the digit is back.

So, poser 2012 render look like I've posted. The material screen shots are there. You see a render pre patch (though I admit it is the SSS version, but my SSS mat is giving the same results). Poser 2010, renders FINE! My partner on the project is using poser 7, renders fine. I tested in daz 4, renders fine. Poser 6 image attached I did just now, fine...

It's driving me bats4!t crazy!!1!

Here's what happened. At some point in time I had accidentally saved the jpg for the body as a PROGRESSIVE with SCANS in Photoshop.

This was not an issue for poser, I am theorizing (don't know for sure), before the Sr2 patch update. Once the update occured the progressive scan version of this Jpg became a problem for poser2012.

Solution:

To solve this issue I opened the Jpg in photoshop and resaved as Baseline ("Standard")....... And all is right with the world. The resulting map is just slightly larger in Mb... like 0.2Mb, and it's a 4096px map.

I was gonna say...lol. I haven't had any problems like that and I've installed SR2.

Glad you found the problem.

Laurie

It's good to see our product working nicely for the potential buyers.

Chugging right along for me so far - no problems.

Laurie

Progressive JPEGs as textures seem to work just fine for me in Pro 2012 SR2. Could you provide tech support with a simple scene and a texture that reproduces the issue?

Not anymore, I overwrote all textures producing the issue as to make sure I don't accidentally use the "bad" one.

Note:

In haste of trying to get help with this issue, since the product passed testing on another site and the product was live for sale, I misspoke in an earlier post saying "my" figure. The obj on this figure and UVs were created by newhere... I did the rigging, morphs, etc... In trying to get help quickly I skipped giving credit where credit is due!

 :)

RE: Poser SR2 update, warning think before you click -  it mangled my installation and I have to reinstall from scratch. Ugh

Could you enlighten us on what was mangled after installing SR2?

Mangled your installation? In what way? Worked fine for me. Operator error maybe? ;).

Laurie

I had a new issue today while rigging...

Sometimes the bones falloff zones and the vertices they control will dissapear and no longer effect its parent. This seems to happen on only one side of the body for me.

To fix: Simply go to the setup room. Parent the bone you are having problems with to another bone and then re-parent to the original bone.

Sometime poser will crash still when doing this, sometimes it wont. But, when you go back to the main pose room, you will see your verticies are highlighted again and controllable... you will have to re-create the falloff zones, but at least it's a fix!

I can't post screens of the issue, but I just wanted to post the issue and the fix in case it happeneds to anyone else.

I am running into this issue again and again. Something that was ok breaks... I fix it and something else breaks.

I am talking about bones and parents. I am seeing the vertices skipping over the parent s group and not effecting it at all for "bend" for example, but works fine for "side to side".

Also, I am seeing bending happening to the parent group that is falling outside the falloff capsule or sphere zones.

ANYONE ELSE seeing this? Content creators, I'm looking at you!

Quote - I am running into this issue again and again. Something that was ok breaks... I fix it and something else breaks.

 

I am talking about bones and parents. I am seeing the vertices skipping over the parent s group and not effecting it at all for "bend" for example, but works fine for "side to side".

 

Also, I am seeing bending happening to the parent group that is falling outside the falloff capsule or sphere zones.

 

 

 

ANYONE ELSE seeing this? Content creators, I'm looking at you!

You should report this to Smith Micro - even if is a user errpr (which I don't think is the case), the crashing part should be fixed. If possible provide a series of steps which reproduce the problem

wimvdb: Thanks for the confidence, but I don't feel like telling them so I can here: reinstall this, reinstall that....

I am getting this bone error in more sections now which my "fix" is no longer working. Some rigging items as simple as "hip to abdomen"... the abs pretend like the hip is not its parent... it knows for bending, twisting, moving, etc... just NOT for the falloff zones.

Since the figure I'm working on is P9 (pp2012) I was already telling other parts to have other affected actors.... so I don't want to mess it up by saving in another, lower, version. Opening in a lower version still shows my these bugs though.

Any thoughts? Anyone? Bueller? Farris Bueller? Anyone?

I have reason to think Poser 2012 is deleting items from the cr2... I ran my cr2 through poser fiel editor (PFE) and it re-created 10 dials that were missing. This has NOT fixed the vertices issue but does explain why a re-install of poser 2012 did not solve my issue with this figure.

I've tried re-parenting the bones, but if poser is really deleting information within the cr2 then I will have to delete the bone and create a new one to restore the missing info on each effected bone. The only issue is if I do that, I get crashing in poser big time when re-parent/childing bones. Sr2 did help the stability on that front.... but really f'd up my 5 days of work.

So, I've reinstalled. I have not run any sr1 or sr2 yet. i will update this thread as i go. Again, I would like to hear any other content creators with similar issues....

Yup. Just as I feared. If I delete the effected bone and create a new one the issue is gone. Once you delete it and make a new one you then have to redo all falloffs, etc...

So now I am at a delema... do I dare reinstall sr1? I sure as hell will not reinstall sr2!!!

ps: I'm getting more and more pissed that the main reason for having 2012 is to create content and this sr2 update is a DEADLY FEATURE KILLING build of an update.

Sr2 will kill your figure saves. I suggest you never save a figure to your library using sr2. Ever. I don't think you can blame THAT on a graphics driver, can you.............

phionix - is your preference set to use external binaries?

If so, have you tried turning it off? I wonder if the missing info is stored in the PMD and is not being read back.

And have you told SM? I know you're mad, but no matter how loud you yell about this particular problem, we don't seem to be having the same problem and can't help you. And I would definitely look into what wim said. External binaries have definitely caused strange problems before ;)

Laurie

Allow me to step in.

Phionix...

LaurieA has given you the best possible advice concerning this issue. If the folks here were going to think of something, they would have thought of it by now. 

This is one of those issues where it may make you feel better to complain to friends about your ailment, but only your doctor is going to be able to make it go away. Contact Smith Micro and get some real help.

My $.02

I read on another post where someone updated their gc driver & all of the SR2 bugs went away (not saying it'll fix everyone's probs, just thought I'd mention it)

I have run into the same issue with all versions of 2012 Pro, not just the service releases.

It happened in 2010 Pro as well.

I turned off multithread bending and it seems to have corrected some of it, but not all of it.

Another thing I noticed is that if you leave the setup room after working with each bone (grouping, joint, etc) then go right back to it, it happens far less often. Something tells me that the issue starts when you modify more than one bone/group, then leave the setup room, it will corrupt one of them.

I have a few error logs that I need to send to SM that show a NT kernel access error when it happens as well. I am not sitting at that computer right (at work right presently) now to list the entry point that causes a few issues to crop up as well. Once you get the kernel error to happen, you have to reboot the machine.

basicwiz and LaurieA, I'll be opening a SM ticket later today. No, I don't have extrnal binaries checked, I only do that when making pmd's, and then turn it off again.

MaryHines, what's a GC? do you mean graphics driver? i have the latest one for mine.

shvrdavid: Thank god you found this thread, tell me....

Do you mean you leave the setup room and go back in to it again, without doing anything else in between?

This issue of mine happened outside of the setup room completely... as to say I rigged the entire figure, everything was fine in the pose room, and somewhere along the way of tweaking falloff zones and copy/pasting them from left to right using symmetry, and periodically saving the character to the library, bones got corrupted. And not just the ones from left to right.... even abdomen and chest bones lost relationships to their parenting bones.

I'm going to turn off multithreadedbending right now... what does it do? I never had this issue in any other build of poser... from p6, p8,pp10 (and all sr patches in between), and pp12 pre sr2... 2012-Sr2 is the first time for THIS kind of issue!

I would like to hear from more content creators using Sr2 who are rigging items... even if you have not had an issue (content creator making items from scratch), please tell me (or if you have any other bugs f'ing things up... )

Quote - shvrdavid: Thank god you found this thread, tell me.... Do you mean you leave the setup room and go back in to it again, without doing anything else in between?

When I rig a character from inside Poser, I leave the setup room after each bone I name and set the grouping up to see if it works, and to see if there is a parent/child problem.

If it does not work, I just delete the bone, leave the setup room and come back, then make a new bone. You will get a warning about ungrouped polygons until it is all set up. I have tried to find what gets lost in the cr2, and have discovered that it is not always the same error in the cr2 (depends on the bones parent, etc), so deleting the bone and redoing it is faster than trying to find the error.

I don't use the standard joint zones anymore, so I am not sure what to tell you there. All I have been doing is weight mapping since 2012 came out. Editing joint centers from the parameters tab with the offsets should be avoided if at all possible as well, more on conforming endpoints in a bit...

I just start by setting up the deformer for the main map, then add a weight map. Rough the map in then set the deformer for the bulge maps and rough them in.

There really is not much need to set up a traditional zone just to delete it later.

One thing that I would strongly recommend, is doing numbered file saves and not overwriting your previous saves. If you notice that something has gone wrong, reboot the computer and load a previous version. If you run into a file that just does not save right at all, check to see of the cr2 has conforming endpoints in it. There  should not be any in a character (non conforming character). Animated joint centers seem to make them appear more than if you do not use them, same goes for ERC'd bulge maps. Using the joint offsets in the parameter tab can be hit and miss as well. If there are conforming endpoints in a character, you can plan on things going downhill from there. They mess with the joint centers/maps/etc, and eventually you will get a corrupt save that puts Poser into a endless loop of "Not a valid Poser file"

Intermittantly Poser SR2 just crashes on me when entering the setup room as well. I am not 100% sure why, but it dumps the same error every time it does it. Windows recovers from it, but it takes it a bit to get the memory back when it does it. If you are getting this, you may have to reboot depepnding on how memory recovery is set up on your machine. It is not setup to fully recover by default in Windows.

If you are curious, this is the event log on it.

Quote - Faulting application name: PoserPro.exe, version: 9.0.2.21214, time stamp: 0x4f82b53a
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.17725, time stamp: 0x4ec4aa8e
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x00000000000c40f2
Faulting process id: 0x948
Faulting application start time: 0x01cd1acea520ce9b
Faulting application path: D:Program Files PoserSmith MicroPoser Pro 2012PoserPro.exe
Faulting module path: C:WindowsSYSTEM32ntdll.dll
Report Id: c47639eb-8703-11e1-b41d-20cf305744ca

I also found an interesting intermittant bug with obj file generation as well. I had one save today with the winding order corrupted. Not a big deal when using numbered file saves thou.

shvrdavid: I'm going to have to read that a couple times for it to soak in.... since I do still stick to standard zones and do not (generally) leave the room until the full rig is made. When I leave the room before the rig is complete I get OBJ errors (and just replace with the original import later to fix).

One thing I found interesting right now is this: I opened Poser File Editor (PFE) and used the repair features in it...

over 600 "correct file quotations" and more in "double quotes"

10 missing dials created

over 5000 double spaces removed

...................... Is all of this normal?? I never HAD to use the repair tools, so I don't know if this was stuff atributing to the file corruption. I DO know that the 10 missing dials fixed some of the geometry weirdness that happened... but not the major stuff that I'm talking about here.

I submitted my SM ticket.... lets see what the officals say. I'm just hoping they don't try to send me on a wild driver chase... Or blame another software... or blame it on human error... etc... Cause if it's human error I would have thought I'd run into this when I started making stuff in poser 6.

How do I find if I have conforming endpoints in a figure?

Also.... DO I have to delete JUST the bone with the obvious error, OR do i ahve to delete all bones in relation to the error. For example:

I have the waist, abdomen and chest. Chest gives me an error that it does not react correctly to the abdoment... but also it pulls on the waist, when it should not. Obviously there seems to be some kind of relation beweeen the 2 that should not be there and is skipping a relationship that should.

Do I then have to delete all 3? To break the relationship that should not exist and repair the one between 2 actors that should?

I might spend 2 days just making a new rig from scratch.... this sucks ba11z.

So here's another things that happends....

So I delete my chest bone to create a new one. I reparent everything. I readjust my falloffs etc... Everything looks good. I then select the Abdomen (the chests parent) and low and behold...... When I go to the joint editor I am NO LONGER able to choose my bend and side to side from the drop down menu....

the only choices i have are "center", chest:1_smooY and hip_smooY.......... This is not the only bone that, all of a sudden, I have the ablility to now select the smooths..... WTF!? And now items that I should have been able to select are gone....

Quote - So I delete my chest bone to create a new one. I reparent everything. I readjust my falloffs etc... Everything looks good. I then select the Abdomen (the chests parent) and low and behold...... When I go to the joint editor I am NO LONGER able to choose my bend and side to side from the drop down menu....

Most of the time all you have to do is uncheck the affected actors from the bone that is giving the trouble then delete it and add a new one.

Quote - the only choices i have are "center", chest:1_smooY and hip_smooY.......... This is not the only bone that, all of a sudden, I have the ablility to now select the smooths..... WTF!? And now items that I should have been able to select are gone....

When that happens there are some things that need to be added back into the cr2.

If you are missing rotations on a joint, in the joint editor, most likley the jointZ, jointX, and twistY channels are missing on that actor. Just copy them from another channel and delete any dependencies within them so you dont end up with the wrong dependencies in the channel. On rare occasions the rotateX xrot, rotateY yrot, and rotateZ zrot channels will be missing as well. The order these are listed define the joint order as well.

Any twistX (bodypart)_ltwistx lines are for additional affected actors, and I have seen them get corrupted as well. Randomly the will be missing the otherActor line. (otherActor lHand:1) for instance, or the primaryParm line (primaryParm twistx, etc). If you are not sure what is missing just delete the bone and make a new one.

To see if you have conforming endpoints in a cr2, just search it for the word conform.

Conform should only appear at the end of the figure section just above the texture references (conforming 0) If you find conform as an endpoint at the top of a channel section, you will have to manually correct it by coping the confomingendpoint numbers to the endPoint line. Then delete the confomingendpoint line.

I made a new rig from scratch pre sr2....

I am slowly still getting a bug here and there...

I DO see conform end point in every (randomly checking bones with and without issues) bone. These are found under end point and above origin. Should every instance of conforming end points be removed then?

Also, to narrow down one issue... lets say I have an error on the Twist on the leg foot, and it is not reacting correctly to the shin (parent). But the right side works just fine. Now I go into the properties of the left and the right, look all over and cannot find anything missing in the channels or other areas... what am I missing? I know I can delete and remake it, but I'd like to know exactly where I could look in PFE to fix this 1 issue. If you know, let me know!

and Thank you shvrdavid for the info.... SM support still hasn't replied to my ticket (it's only been about 30 hours, but I would have expected at least an acknowledgemnt by now, a "Hi, I will get back to you"... anything...).

In the mean time I will scour the CR2 in PFE... since i have at least 2 body parts that have the same problem.

By God I think I see one..... I'm compairing the left (problem) with the right.... I have an issue in the foot.... The problem looks like it resides in the shin, the twistY "primaryParm... said "jointy" but SHOULD be "twistz"... I'm writing as I am finding it, so I don't know if this will do the trick, but I sure hope so!!!

EDIT: Nope... but it's a start....

EDIT 2: Seems to work as long as I make sure to edit multiple areas to make sure EVERYTHING matches from left to right.

It seems to have confused the joint rotaion order... I some places, and in the software itself, everything looks fine...... but hidden away in the CR2 file the joint order recorded on the parent has the wrong information. So, I have a problem with the foot, the issue is recorded incorrectly in the Shin....... wtf. Oh Poser 2012, what will you think of next?

How I'm going to do this in center pieces like the chest i have no idea yet!

ps: still no word from SM support. Not even a Hi! Just the original auto reply....

shvrdavid : I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about now, in the channels, the jointz,x,y....etc... I am also seeing one issue and found it's resolve... I had mentioned earlier about actors that are 2 body sections away... grandchildern if you will. When I had moved the head for example, the chest would have vertices move. Now, the neck would be inbetween... and the chest was NOT checked on the "affected" list... so why was this happening? Well, just as I found the solution to the last problem, it resided in the chest and not the head. For some reason the chest had a Head twistx living in it... removing it fixed the issue.

So I ask... why is poser making these channels that should not exist? Why are they changing joint orders in one section and leaving them correct in others? I've never had this issue even come up in any previous build of poser. I am still in Sr1.... as Sr2 seemed to do the opposite... It was leaving out parts that should be there, while sr1 is including parts that should not be.

Well.... I'm ALMOST back to where I was 2 days ago in my project, except this time I'm able to counter the bugs. It's better removing extra items than trying to find what needs to be added back in.

I'll continue to post bugs I find in pp2012.......... I would encourage everyone to do the same. Just in case someone (probably me) runs into the same issues, at least we might all be able to find how to fix them!

ps: SM still not answering me on the support site... how long does it usually take to get back? In the past it's always been 2 to 24 hours...

If you are just rigging a standard character, ie with spheres or capsules. You might have better luck rigging them in an older version of Poser. I still use 2010 for that. if you are going to weight map it, you can start it in 2010 but thats about it.

2012 SR1 will add conforming endpoints all over the place and you will have to go back thru the cr2 and correct for them (more on this in a bit). 2012 SR2 leaves stuff out of the cr2 randomly. All the 2012 versions have the bone affected actors problem randomly as well. That can happen in the older versions as well, just not as often. I find it easier to rig weight mapped characters in SR2.

I think that a lot of the problem is that 2012 jumped from standard rigging to being able to do 2 different types of rigging at the same time. That is probably where the twist (body part) problem stems from. If a body part is in the range of the deformer when you make the bone, a twist (body part) can get inserted somewhere you do not actually want it to be. I noticed that if you draw the bone so that nothing else could be in its way, ie draw the bone sticking out first then move it into position. You don't get random twist channels.

One thing I did discover in SR1 is that bone endpoints should be manually typed into the joint editor to get around some of the conforming endpoint issues when you are creating the bones. If the box shows .240 for example. it might actually be .239456 when you click on it and highlight it. SR2 does not seem to have the endpoint problem, but the rounding issue is still there, even more so in other areas such as parameters and the dependency editor. If you want a number to be .240, type it in the box to ensure that it is .240 instead of .239456

Quote - SM support still hasn't replied to my ticket (it's only been about 30 hours, but I would have expected at least an acknowledgemnt by now, a "Hi, I will get back to you"... anything...).

Your report made it into engineering, they are digging in on this one. Thank you for sending us the report.

It typically takes time to get to the bottom of an issue, and in the tracking process engineering works best when there is a repeatable case to help pinpoint the cause of the error. Support can sometimes get backlogged with replies, and in this case, I wanted to be sure you knew we did indeed get your report.

Cooper

Coop. you might want to pass along the error log I posted above and have them check to see if there is an un-initialized variable problem somewhere in the code. (not saying there is, but it is worth looking into) The problem seems to be related to the setup room, suggesting to me that the memory spot for a variable may not have the right info in it ocassionaly.