Quote - LOL, 2 DAZ Genesis vendors in a thread about what direction Poser should take....

Hmmmm, what's wrong with this picture?

No deflecting, glitter. If you want to participate, you really need to have logical contributions. ;)

Quote - > Quote - LOL, 2 DAZ Genesis vendors in a thread about what direction Poser should take....

Hmmmm, what's wrong with this picture?

No deflecting, glitter. If you want to participate, you really need to have logical contributions. ;)

No deflection.......just curiosity!  Seems very strange that you even have an interest in this topic since you are experiencing such great sales at DAZ with your Genesis products.  Why in the world would you care what SM/Poser does?

Quote - **Ask yourselves honestly what has WM really done for the average user experience.
**

Well, fotr one thing, it has given us a V4 that works far better than she ever did in her initial state (from Daz). I see the difference every time I use her, both in the way she poses and the way I can morph her on my own.

Do I know how to do weight mapping? No. But there are people out there who do, and I'm thankful they are willing to share their talents.

This is the POSER Forum.

Daz merchants who wish to comment on these threads must understand that the audience is going to be highly skeptical of their views due to their own vested interests in seeing competing products not succeed. It is not diflection or an attack for other users to point this out. What they (the Daz Merchants) are doing is the functional equivilant of the Republicans commenting on what sort of job the Democratic President is doing.

So don't be surprised that a lot of salt gets shaken on your views. 

Shake all the salt you want, people, but there better not be any personal attacks from either side.

Warning #2

Quote - This is the POSER Forum.

Daz merchants who wish to comment on these threads must understand that the audience is going to be highly skeptical of their views due to their own vested interests in seeing competing products not succeed. It is not diflection or an attack for other users to point this out. What they (the Daz Merchants) are doing is the functional equivilant of the Republicans commenting on what sort of job the Democratic President is doing.

So don't be surprised that a lot of salt gets shaken on your views. 

Shake all the salt you want, people, but there better not be any personal attacks from either side.

Warning #2

No warning needed. I have Greasemonkey and a handy script called ROIgnore.

Quote - Daz merchants who wish to comment on these threads must understand that the audience is going to be highly skeptical of their views due to their own vested interests in seeing competing products not succeed. It is not diflection or an attack for other users to point this out. What they are doing is the functional equivilant of the Republicans commenting on what sort of job the Democratic President is doing.

So don't be surprised that a lot of salt gets shaken on your views. 

1. Here's the thing with my vested interest. I do 3D for fun, not to pay bills. I ended up selling on DAZ after selling at other stores because my morphs the people I work with felt I should start putting my name on the product after giving them several morphs for free that they they've used in their product. 3D pays for my 3D. Any vested interest comes for other's overactive imaginations.

2. As a moderator, your job is to keep the peace, not take sides as I've seen you do several times. I know being a moderator isn't easy, but you really should take that in mind when you post responses. Keep in mind that I vendor here too and really if you don't like that, I can take this matter up with others in charge as well.

I would say that I definitely... even with my likely quite crude, newbie awareness here... can note a marked improvement when posing a weight-mapped V4 or a weight-mapped Antonia Polygon.

Certainly enough to make me excited about the prospect of figures whose meshes are designed from the ground-up, to be rigged using weight-mapping.

;-)

Quote - > Quote - **Ask yourselves honestly what has WM really done for the average user experience.

**

Well, fotr one thing, it has given us a V4 that works far better than she ever did in her initial state (from Daz). I see the difference every time I use her, both in the way she poses and the way I can morph her on my own.

Do I know how to do weight mapping? No. But there are people out there who do, and I'm thankful they are willing to share their talents.

Exactly!  I don't even use non weightmapped figures anymore.  Why fight when posing and clothing figures when you can use weight mapping?

Quote - Why fight when posing and clothing figures when you can use weight mapping?

Ummm... cuz they haven't weightmapped my favorite figure yet.... and I haven't spent any time learning how to convert P6 James myself yet.

Quote - > Quote - Why fight when posing and clothing figures when you can use weight mapping?

 

Ummm... cuz they haven't weightmapped my favorite figure yet.... and I haven't spent any time learning how to convert P6 James myself yet.

ROFL, yeah, I know.  I'm really looking forward to the Kids being weight mapped since they are my favorites.  But, I am also anxiously waiting for M4.  I even have a product I want to release when weight mapped M4 comes out - standard conforming is ready, but I'm holding it to add a weight mapped version.

While in many aspects V4WM does indeed bend better than V4, what you see at work is not so much the weightmapping, but the "helper bones".

Which, IMHO, while quite ingenious, are just as problematic as the magnets DAZ originally crammed into her cr2.

And everything you need several magnets or helper bones for can much more "savely" be done with a single JCM.

The more basic a cr2 is, the less chance of something breaking along the road. And nothing could be simpler than a JCM which is just a morph.

Or to say it this way: A non weightmapped but JCM'd V4 would bend better than V4WM but be still compatible with Poser 4 and all existing V4 clothing without the need for a special tool.

To be clear, I don't mind having weightmapping or the community enjoying V4WM.

But I think other improvements would have been more pressing, like, true instancing. Wouldn't it be great to have huge forrests with real trees in Poser ? Like in Vue or Carrara ?

And I also want Poser to have an "official" figure with "official" morphs and "official" support and not being at the mercy of a grassroots movement who of course follows its own agenda.

Phantom3D is a nice guy and a great rigger, but I want SmithMicro to clean up the "mess" this community is now in, not him.

"Saving" Poser is too much for a single person, and it's a big difference if you just release some freebies because you feel like it, or you have to work because a lot of people expect you to.

Quote - While in many aspects V4WM does indeed bend better than V4, what you see at work is not so much the weightmapping, but the "helper bones".

Which, IMHO, while quite ingenious, are just as problematic as the magnets DAZ originally crammed into her cr2.

And everything you need several magnets or helper bones for can much more "savely" be done with a single JCM.

The more basic a cr2 is, the less chance of something breaking along the road. And nothing could be simpler than a JCM which is just a morph.

Or to say it this way: A non weightmapped but JCM'd V4 would bend better than V4WM but be still compatible with Poser 4 and all existing V4 clothing without the need for a special tool.

To be clear, I don't mind having weightmapping or the community enjoying V4WM.

But I think other improvements would have been more pressing, like, true instancing. Wouldn't it be great to have actuallandscapes with forrests in Poser ?

And I also want Poser to have an "official" figure with "official" morphs and "official" support and not being at the mercy of a grassroots movement who of course follows his own agenda.

Phantom3D is a nice guy and a great rigger, but I want SmithMicro to clean up the "mess" this community is now in, not him.

"Saving" Poser is too much for a single person, and it's a big difference if you just release some freebies because you feel like it, or you have to work because a lot of people expect you to.

That's sad.  Because, frankly, that's exactly what Poser represents to me - the ability to CREATE, to innovate, to do as I please rather than load, pose, render.

To me, Poser provides the tools for me to be creative. 

I don't want a boxed solution locking me into someone else's definition of "creative."

The ability of Phantom3D to innovate IS what Poser is about.

I have been away for a day. (Lucky you all :-) ), and doing some reading here.

Some neutral remarks:

1. YES, this is the Poser forum, an app I have been using since Poser 1.

2. YES, the discussion Poser-DAZ is as usefull as the Windows-MAC discussion.

3. NO, the perfect figure does not exist, nor does the perfect OS, nor does the perfect application.

4. YES, I tried all figures, old and new.

5. YES, ALL figures have their strong and less strong points.

6. YES, some figures have "unrepairable" errors and will NEVER get corrected. And these figures come from BOTH main companies.

7. Weightmapping is a tool. As a magnet is a tool, as the cloth room is a tool, as the hair room is a tool. U use it, and like, or dislike it.

As far as the figures go?
To each his/her own preference.
Most figures have been used in renders, so.

Who is the queen?
V4 is.
And she will stay so for a very-very-very long time.
WHY??
Is she the best figure?
NO.
But she has the most support. The most items to use.
And YES the V4WM is an improvement over the origional.

There have been no personal attacks yet. (Let us keep it that way, please)
Exept for one: basicwiz attacking me.

One uses SubD
The second uses Smoothing.
After a very clear description of SubD, I posted the possibilities of Posers Smoothing function.

And got a not so polite answer.
So my last remark goes to basicwiz.

Or? You moderate, or you participate in a discussion.
You can not moderate and participate at the same time.
Once you choose a side,  You are not neutral any more.

When you start to participate in a discussion you loose the right to moderate. Period.
I hope I am pretty-pretty- clear here.

To each his/her own.

Choose your OS.
Choose your 3D app.
Choose your figures.

And post in the right forums.

Thank you all for reading.
Tony

Quote - > Quote - lol wow. Drama drama drama. (que brady bunch theme)

I remember the drama over Renda, but somehow I missed all that about Apollo, and I don't even think I've seen a Clark. And i was around in 07. Err, at least in the early part of it. 

 ~Shane

It was just ur typical, he said/she said foot shooting contest ;).

Laurie

Actually, it wasn't a matter of "he said/she said."  It was a matter of one vendor falsely accusing another of "mesh plagiarism" in a deliberate effort to kill the other vendor's product-- which I consider completely despicable.

I did a side-by-side comparison of the two figures and found NO similarity between them whatsoever.

That wasn't by any means the first or only time that Anton made false accusations that others had stolen his precious Apollo or his "ideas" or whatever.  He eventually managed to alienate just about everybody except a small, hard-core group of Apollo worshippers-- and pretty much shot himself in the foot.  Both feet, actually.

I'm "innovating" for 12 years now, but I didn't do it because I wanted, but because I had to.

I had to because even the DAZ figures weren't good enough for my taste, so I had to learn to rig and to sculpt and to map to bring them up to a standard I was happy with.

But while it's nice to now have the skills to create basically anything I want, if DAZ (or Smith Micro or someone else) had given me ready made figures that looked and worked as my custom figures do now, I would have happily avoided the joint editor and the set-up room and the text-editor and the cr2-editor and all the other techie stuff and just had "fun" with Poser, making pretty pictures to show off in the gallery.

Just like everybody else.

You know, vilters, you are absolutely right.

I should not participate in discussions. 

So, I will bow out.

/moderate mode on.

Quote - I'm "innovating" for 12 years now, but I didn't do it because I wanted, but because I had to.

I had to because even the DAZ figures weren't good enough for my taste, so I had to learn to rig and to sculpt and to map to bring them up to a standard I was happy with.

But while it's nice to now have the skills to create basically anything I want, if DAZ (or Smith Micro or someone else) had given me ready made figures that looked and worked as my custom figures do now, I would have happily avoided the joint editor and the set-up room and the text-editor and the cr2-editor and all the other techie stuff and just had "fun" with Poser, making pretty pictures to show off in the gallery.

Just like pretty much everybody else.

LOL, see now, THAT was the point.  You had the tools to do as you needed.

That's how I have always viewed Poser - a toolbox to use to create much like a traditional artist's box of brushes and paints.

Quote - LOL, 2 DAZ Genesis vendors in a thread about what direction Poser should take....

Hmmmm, what's wrong with this picture?

Excuse me?...I have been developing products for poser for over a decade now. I have just as much vested interest in poser as does anyone else.

Genesis is just a new innovation, it does not discount at all any of my interest. I still develop poser usable products. So I am on top of all the developments on every side.

Why do you have to turn this into a poser vs d/s debate?

They are both valid and worthwhile tools, which can actually be discussed in the same sentence.

Innovation can be done with whatever tools you choose. It doesnt matter if your app is poser or d/s. Innovation comes from your mind and its flexibility, not the software you choose.

I like to think alot of my poser characters were innovative. Every time a new technology was added to poser, I always followed along. To me it is all about being able to push things as far as I can to make the coolest characters possible.

I also like to think that with genesis's ability to use geografting, I can innovate in ways I could never have done before. So yeah..thats some pretty irriesistable tech for me.

But I do love the way poser renders and I find the material room much easier in poser for things like shaders. But that is probably because there is not enough documentation on shaders for d/s. I am sure they can do the same things...but figuring out how is the real slow down.

Rawnn, thank you for getting this back on track.

This is getting ugly. While no real attacks have been made, people are feeling attacked, and this is not good.

Whether I have or have not contributed to this, I'm giving everyone the same warning: Let's discuss Male figures, not the Poser vs Daz issue. Any further provocative posts by either side will result in the thread being locked.

I hope this is neutral enough and plain enough. 

Quote - But I think other improvements would have been more pressing, like, true instancing. Wouldn't it be great to have huge forrests with real trees in Poser ? Like in Vue or Carrara ?

For huge forests of trees, because I have Vue Esprit, I'd probably use that... importing my Poser scene into Vue, native mode, so I could still pose and benefit from Poser's material nodes, within Vue... this needs a fair bit of system resource in itself though certainly ;-)

I think Poser as an application should perhaps focus on features that benefit posing figures... first and foremost.

Don't get me wrong I've tried out some pretty large scale scenes within just Poser too... indeed to the extent that I've found the apparent limits of the Firefly rendering engine with regard to the sheer scale of a scene.

Poser's strength, I think, is in positioning itself as a solid tool, within a prosumer or professional (at certain grades, at least) workflow?

But that said, "instancing", as far as I understand how it works in Vue, could be a fairly powerful feature relative to crowd scenes too, couldn't it??

So, sure JoePublic, I'd be all for that... along with more dynamics, of different types.

Lastly, a core part of what made me decide to buy Poser, that I failed to mention earlier, was what I could see, shining out, of the fantastically innovative community of enthusiasts that has grown up around Poser... this is something that is unrivalled elsewhere, in my humble opinion... and of ultimate, infinite value.

EDIT: Sorry... crosspost... I'm continuing to be off track too here, relative to discussing male figures...

;-)

Quote - This is the POSER Forum.

Daz merchants who wish to comment on these threads must understand that the audience is going to be highly skeptical of their views due to their own vested interests in seeing competing products not succeed. It is not diflection or an attack for other users to point this out. What they (the Daz Merchants) are doing is the functional equivilant of the Republicans commenting on what sort of job the Democratic President is doing.

So don't be surprised that a lot of salt gets shaken on your views. 

Shake all the salt you want, people, but there better not be any personal attacks from either side.

Warning #2

The "Daz Vendors" here so far have not been baiting, but others have. Some Daz vendors still use Poser too and have every right to discuss it if they want to. But there are ppl who want to create a pissing contest, no matter what the discussion or how well it's going just because some Daz vendors show up. If you all wanna get technical, I am a Daz vendor too. I've never used anything but Poser. Should I go just because I have a product at Daz?

Now, as to the discussion, I agree with lmckenzie, but I do see merit in wolf359's thoughts. Smith Micro doesn't deal in content - only software. While it's nice to think about, I don't see them opening a content arm anytime soon.

Laurie

LaurieA,

I have already apologized for entering into the discussion. I don't know what else I can do. 

Quote - LaurieA,

I have already apologized for entering into the discussion. I don't know what else I can do. 

Hehe, I wasn't referring to you. You've been civil this whole time. LOL

Sometimes it is a Daz vendor that starts it just to be fair, but not this time in this thread.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - i need new nicely bending men.  ... or an articulating hentai tentacle monster

 

So do I, Misty... So do I...

 

 

~Shane

at this point, i'd settle for a male morph for Alyson and/or Sydney.  with a bit of kitbashing toast. 

They did a real good job on Sydney's bends, even without wm.

Genesis is a product that is not fully compatible with Poser, so we don't mention it much on this part of the forum.

Link

All the best.

LROG

Quote - LaurieA,

I have already apologized for entering into the discussion. I don't know what else I can do. 

don't apologize. at all. when you became Mod it was because of your knowledge and passion for the software.

you don't get a lobotomy by becoming a mod. don't give into the logic displayed by those that will attack you for showing a side.. yet won't attack other mods for doing the same thing.

and don't let Vilters play "bait a Mod" like he enjoys and has done to others.

Quote - Why do you have to turn this into a poser vs d/s debate?

They are both valid and worthwhile tools, which can actually be discussed in the same sentence.

Exactly. It's a damn shame we can't even discuss stuff like this anymore. So what if someone else uses DS? Makes no difference to MY life I can tell you....lol. I wish we could just GET OVER IT and move on. For the love of gawd...

This should have NEVER been made into another Poser/DS fuckfest...wasn't even the subject of the thread.

Now, if we could please pull the broomsticks out of our asses and get back to the subject?....

Laurie

Where's E D? We need some more screenshots of his male figure :P

Laurie

Quote - "Not really sure why SM doesn't have an official content creation team, but you'd think they would."

I would not think that..why would anyone think this??

It could go either way, really.

There are reasons it could be very beneficial and considered a good investment. As it stands, it still benefits independent content creators, which I think is SM's goal, and I have no problem with that.  

~Shane

Quote - Where's E D? We need some more screenshots of his male figure :P

Laurie

They're coming, i promise. lol.

I'm hoping to have him fully textured by the next shots. Not promising that just yet tho.

~Shane

I'll take whatever you've got at this point in the thread ;).

Laurie

Awesome... thanks ExistentialDisorder... really looking forward to seeing some more of Lucas ;-)

"Or? You moderate, or you participate in a discussion.
You can not moderate and participate at the same time.
Once you choose a side,  You are not neutral any more."

Vilters and everyone else- We moderate and participate. We too are members of the community and have just as much right as you to participate in the forum. If you have a problem with any staff member I would suggest contacting admin and if you feel the need, ask what a moderator's role is before tryingt to bash the staff. There is no need to reply back to my thread vilters, I will not debate this issue with you. Thank you.

wantz one of these    or two.

[http://www.oanmedia.com/photos/2006-0515a_gabriel.jpg

](http://www.oanmedia.com/photos/2006-0515a_gabriel.jpg)

does anyone else remember Lorenzo Lamas from the Renegade years?

"Actually, it wasn't a matter of "he said/she said."  It was a matter of one vendor falsely accusing another of "mesh plagiarism" in a deliberate effort to kill the other vendor's product-- which I consider completely despicable.

I did a side-by-side comparison of the two figures and found NO similarity between them whatsoever.

That wasn't by any means the first or only time that Anton made false accusations that others had stolen his precious Apollo or his "ideas" or whatever.  He eventually managed to alienate just about everybody except a small, hard-core group of Apollo worshippers-- and pretty much shot himself in the foot.  Both feet, actually.
"
Thank You!!!

Cashing  in on Anti-Daz sentiment only takes a product so far.
Eventually you will have to produce something beyond an overrated Puffball with a preponderance of homo-erotic fetish wear
and a face that was easily identified from miles away.

But any way
E.D. you do realize that the  original purpose of this thread was a subtle nudge to see your latest progress on your Male figure I assume?

Cheers

Cheers

Eventually you will have to produce something beyond an overrated Puffball with a preponderance of homo-erotic fetish wear
and a face that was easily identified from miles away.

So, it's not just me that thought that!!!!

All the best.

LROG

Quote - But any way
E.D. you do realize that the  original purpose of this thread was a subtle nudge to see your latest progress on your Male figure I assume?

I appreciate the sentiment, but no, I didn't. 

Actually I thought it was a more generalized request for updates on any of the in-development male figures that various people seem to be working on. 

I promise you all will see updates soon. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and so I don't like showing something until I'm happy with it at whatever stage it is at at that particular point. 

The only real reason I posted images of him to begin with was to throw a teaser out there, to see what the reaction might be and generate some early buzz. They were deliberately vague, yet revealing enough at the same time. 

Requests for updates (and features, for that matter), on Lucas should be posted in the thread about Lucas, cause I don't really respond to/notice subtle too well, most of the time. :) 

I will however note that I've stopped working on anything else to focus all my attention on Lucas, just so no one thinks it's a project that "maybe, someday might kind'a get completed."

~Shane

Quote - Where's E D? We need some more screenshots of his male figure :P

Laurie

Now there's a double entendre' if I ever saw one! Yeah E.D.! Let's see your figure!

Quote - wantz one of these    or two.

[http://www.oanmedia.com/photos/2006-0515a_gabriel.jpg

](http://www.oanmedia.com/photos/2006-0515a_gabriel.jpg)

does anyone else remember Lorenzo Lamas from the Renegade years?

I am ashamed to say that I do...lol.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Where's E D? We need some more screenshots of his male figure :P

Laurie

 

Now there's a double entendre' if I ever saw one! Yeah E.D.! Let's see your figure!

Well, I didn't mean it thataway, but if he's showing...I may be old but I ain't dead yet...lol. Actually I ain't that old either :P

Show away! ;)

LOL...

Well, back to the point of this thread... let hope these new guys don't take tooooo long coming ;-)

I am heartened by ExistentialDisorder's resolve...

...meantime, I'm stuck making scenes like this one, with only one dude in them:

Quote - LOL...

Well, back to the point of this thread... let hope these new guys don't take tooooo long coming ;-)

I am heartened by ExistentialDisorder's resolve...

...meantime, I'm stuck making scenes like this one, with only one dude in them:

What? No Angela?? LOL

Quote - What? No Angela?? LOL

Do you mean this Angela, Laurie?

http://www.sharecg.com/v/51383/View/11/Poser/Angela

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Where's E D? We need some more screenshots of his male figure :P

Laurie

 

Now there's a double entendre' if I ever saw one! Yeah E.D.! Let's see your figure!

Well, I didn't mean it thataway, but if he's showing...I may be old but I ain't dead yet...lol. Actually I ain't that old either :P

Show away! ;)

:m_shocked:

Bookmarking this thread. :m_laugh:

Would love to see his male figure too. :m_blush: :m_laugh:

Quote - > Quote - What? No Angela?? LOL

Do you mean this Angela, Laurie?

http://www.sharecg.com/v/51383/View/11/Poser/Angela

That's the one...lol. I was just kiddin...hehe.

Laurie

Quote - Bookmarking this thread. :m_laugh:

Would love to see his male figure too. :m_blush: :m_laugh:

LOL

Laurie

Quote -
That's the one...lol. I was just kiddin...hehe.

Laurie

LOL. Well I downloaded that Angela figure, since I was on the page... who knows what could happen now ;-)

I think all figures have reasonably easy to identify faces no matter what one does to them.  But I thought apollo's face was his best feature.  He really could make lots of different (but puffy) characters.

Love esther

Now that I've totally derailed the thread with sexual tension. Where's those pictures of Brad, Lucus and whoever else is being created?!?