My point is, and has always been, that the these figures should be useable out of the box.  Poser isn't a modeling application,  although it has some modeling tools, and I don't want to invest a mediocre figure look better.  It's not only the default shapes it's the texture maps and lack of other maps for them.  It's like the difference between buying a new house or a fixer upper.  I also maintain that if they aren't good in their default shapes, vendors aren't going to bother with them either. What should I spend hours trying to make Ryan look good when I can simply load up M4 and hethe look I want with a lot less effort?