I don't trust artists interpretions or standard formulas so I sculpt what I see.

If it looks like the photograph or fits the blueprints, it must be right.

The only thing I have to worry about then is that everything is in scale with each other, i.e the 1.87m tall man is actually 1.87m tall in Poser, the 5.20m long car is actally 5.20m long, and so on.

I want dolls, I want realistic, and everything in between. That's the beauty of CG, for me. I think most people want unrealistic, other wise why would they photoshop every picture to unrealism in magazines? If I'm doing a fantasy image, the farther into fantasy I delve for more realistic I want my figures, to tie back into reality, and make the whole thing believable (comfortable). If I'm doing something realistic, then I want idealistic, not normal figures. The verity that DAZ figures offer fit the bill pretty good for that. I want better though.

7.5 is what I learned while in fine art school. They've been using that formula for lo these many years ;). It's a good one. Of course you'll have variations, but most ppl on the earth average to 7.5 heads high ;). If one draws/sculpts/whatever with that formula, it will look familiar and pleasing to the eye of most ppl. No one's saying it's an absolute :).

Laurie

7.5 is a generally accepted, average norm... I learnt that at art college. Not sure exactly how scientific it is... or if it is just a "rule of thumb". The latter I think... quite literally, i.e. when doing a drawing you'd use your thumb, held out in front of your eye, to get the head size and them move it down in increments...

But I did a lot of life figure drawing... and anatomy drawing... at art college, and every actual human model was different and deviated from that to varying degrees... but at the same time it was always approximately right.

I guess if you are trying to make a geometric model that can be morphed, or whatever, to represent the broadest spectrum of humanity, then following that 7.5 heads principle is probably a relatively sound thing to do...

;-)

As far as I'm concerned it's the faces that are most detracting (on both Allison and Ryan)--I like to use maps with body hair and I like to have facial hair options and Ryan has none of these and it's not worth my time to try to make my own textures for them.  Deecey did a good job on the Runtime DNA forums making Allison look pretty--but to me it's not worth the time.  Antonia is more real world looking and I like her for that reason--but even though she's no fashion model she has a realistic average worman look.  

I guess it depends on what type of work you are doing--I've often found that people have said the native Poser people were more realistic looking--but I don't know people who look like them--perhaps James but that's about it.  If you are going for "real world" types of scenes, I suppose these figures are ok.  I can't put my finger on it, but there is something off putting and not quite real about Allison and Ryan.  People on other forums talk about the "Uncanny Valley"--although I'm skeptical about it I do confess there is something subconsciously unpleasant to me about them.  

In art, conventional as well as digital, I don't think people much care for looking at unattractive or average looking people.  I think that M4 can be very real world looking and that's what I liked about Apollo--not so much with M3.  When I first started working with CG images if I created images with heavy people or those that weren't ideal looking people did not like my pictures.  Of course the artwork was for myself, but I like it when I can share things I've created with folk and they like them.  I don't think I would have been published in magazines or on a calander if I'd used the native Poser folk.   For many people working with 3D art is like a sort of fantasy fulfillment--Barbie in her dream house, heroic images,  modern Adonis'.  I don't do much in the way of fantasy work--but look at the covers of paper back novels and go back to Tarzan and Conan--the artwork of Boris and Frank Frazetta--did these stories and images make one think of average looking people--if you put an out of the box Ryan in fantasy garb and put him on the cover of a book--how many books do you think would be sold?   Even in ad work--unless there is some sort of comedy going on you're not likely to see average looking people unless they are trying to appeal to a certain market.

This is highly subject, of course, I can only stand my what I like.  I don't feel that the Daz Figures are highly unrealistic, it's the morphs that people apply to them--and more people want super vixens or muscle studs rather than cranking up the love handles on Michael, sagging Vickie's breasts, or giving them crows feet.  

I liked what I saw of your model Shane as he looked to hold great potential.  Please keep up the good work!

Personally, I'm all for love handles. Its great to have a dial for those ;-)

I guess a good Poser base figure should have a fairly good, core, universal appeal... matched with the potential to fulfill as broad a range of different tastes and usage scenarios as is reasonably possible with the current technology?

But, back to Rikishi, and the idea of a more fully figured figure... I'm interested to know how weight mapping sits with more extreme morphs?

Ideally, relative to the deployment of weight mapping, would the weight maps for an average joe proportioned figure still function okay if a morph was applied to make them the shape of Rikishi?

Or is it better to have a bespoke model of that shape, for such a figure, with weight maps painted specific to that figures proportions?

Cheers ;-)

the default poser people don't muscle really well. they tend to have sharp edges defining their abdominal musculature etc.

Love esther

I love Miki 1 and 2 of course - they had the most realistic body shape of any Poser figure I've ever seen - Daz figures included. And Kelvin looks a lot more natural than any other black morph or character I've seen. Where those figures fall down is in content. There is only a few things. Not much of a wardrobe.

Laurie

Quote - I love Miki 1 and 2 of course - they had the most realistic body shape of any Poser figure I've ever seen - Daz figures included. And Kelvin looks a lot more natural than any other black morph or character I've seen. Where those figures fall down is in content. There is only a few things. Not much of a wardrobe.

Laurie

On this point about wardrobe... which I guess is the main issue around any figure diversification... how much and how well does the Wardrobe Wizard utliity bundled with Poser contend with this?

Also, to what extent does weight-mapping help resolve or, alternately, exacerbate the issues around migrating conforming clothing and hair peripherals, for figures that aren't, basically V4 or M4?

I agree that the Poser native figures don't muscle well.  When  I want brawn I want the figure to look like a power lifter or competitive body builder--so I'm more likely to reach for F4.  I guess with a a catsuit and a moderate amont of muscle you can get a "superhero" type body out of the G2s--but it's not my perfered look.

Quote - On this point about wardrobe... which I guess is the main issue around any figure diversification...

That and morphs and morphability.

Laurie

Quote -
That and morphs and morphability.

Laurie

Oh yeah... thanks Laurie...

Bear with me... I spent the first few months that I had Poser just using dynamic clothes... or just predominantly nude figures. LOL. Only just recently started using conforming stuff ;-)

I've seen a utility that claims to transfer morphs in conforming clothes too I think... don't know how well that principle works either?

Quote - > Quote -

That and morphs and morphability.

Laurie

Oh yeah... thanks Laurie...

Bear with me... I spent the first few months that I had Poser just using dynamic clothes... or just predominantly nude figures. LOL. Only just recently started using conforming stuff ;-)

I've seen a utility that claims to transfer morphs in conforming clothes too I think... don't know how well that principle works either?

Morphing clothes (sold right here at 'rosity) does the trick quite well.  I have been very happy with it once I got it to get along with WINE (I'm on a Mac).

Just a quick note about proportions.

The proportions used in figure drawing are:

• An average person, is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head).
• An ideal figure, used when aiming for an impression of nobility or grace, is drawn at 8 heads tall.
• A heroic figure, used in the heroic for the depiction of gods and superheroes, is eight-and-a-half heads tall. Most of the additional length comes from a bigger chest and longer legs.

These are pretty standard things that have been around since the 50s.

I would say it dates to a bit earlier than the 50s,

considering even Michelangelo's David utilizes the 7.5 heads rule.

Sumerians also depicted their Gods as being much taller than the average man, though I don't think they had established a rule of 8 or 8.5 heads at that time. Still, it gives light to where the tradition originates.  

~Shane

I meant to type at least the '50s but yeah :)

And David is a bit weird since he is adjusted for viewing at the level of most people using some forshortening. Most large statues have a larger head so that they don't end up witht he look of a pinhead when viewing them from a standard height.

Quote - I meant to type at least the '50s but yeah :)

And David is a bit weird since he is adjusted for viewing at the level of most people using some forshortening. Most large statues have a larger head so that they don't end up witht he look of a pinhead when viewing them from a standard height.

That's interesting, I have to look into that, I never noticed that before.

I'm also quite interested in the "tricks" artists have pulled over the years. One of my favorites is the statue at the top of a very tall building that has no details at all... just basic shapes to suggest it is a statue. The rationale... it's 50 stories up... no one will ever get close enough to see the detail were it there.

what's the name of this statue? Or building? Do you know?

~Shane

I knew someone was going to ask. I actually had to Google it to remember. It is the Chicago Board of Trade building. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Board_of_Trade_Building

I knew it wasn't the William Penn statue on Philadelphia City Hall. I've seen helicopter shots of it and it's very detailed ;).

Laurie

interesting sculpture.

I've seen random statues on buildings that seem to have no real purpose for being there, and some you don't even notice the first 100 times you pass by, but they're always there, watching. 

Your innitial description of it reminded me of this creepy article I read not too long ago about all the strange things that appear in video games with no explaination. 

For example, there are 3 figures in one of the mario games that stand on a cliff overlooking the scene, just silouhetted against a starry back drop. no explanation for why they're there. 

many games have things like that. i guess so people can write articles about it.

anyway, totally off topic. Just made me think of that.

~Shane

There's a sneak peak at "Tyler" in the new SM newsletter, in case anyone hasn't got it...

http://my.smithmicro.com/marcom/eblasts/graphic-arts-digest/20120505/index-web.html

Well that answers the question as to who the mystery man is going to be from Smith Micro--they certainly are keeping things hush, hush.  I do hope in addition to developing the figure they give it adequate support with textures, clothing, and other things!  Thanks MonkeyCloud!

Well! Looks good so far. I think. Maybe ;).

Laurie

I've got your ugly stick handy just in case.....

maybe you can beat those polygons into shape.

Love esther

Lets hope for the best.

Quote - I've got your ugly stick handy just in case.....

If it moves, beat it senseless ;)

Laurie

You be careful with that stick guys, I would like to see how he performs before you pulverize him to an unrecognizable mess.

Love esther

LOL. What's wrong with just giving the guy a nice gentle massage with a morphing tool? ;-)

what's wrong with a good pulverization? (Just kidding, I want to see what he is like and I hope he will be awesome)

Love esther

I think they're really making an effort to give us something nice, if they weren't they would have just let things go with Ryan.

No voilence necessary--if it's ugly we can design a paper bag prop for over his head and call him the "Mystery Man Tyler".   Hey I give Smith Micro an A+ for listening to users and bringing us a new figure--espcially since they called Allyson and Ryan "new" figures since they weight mapped them and put a 2 after their names.  It wasn't exactly what I'd have considered new, since they were the same mesh and all.

Quote - what's wrong with a good pulverization? (Just kidding, I want to see what he is like and I hope he will be awesome)

Love esther

"Welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Third rule of Fight Club: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule: only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule: one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule: No shirts, no shoes. Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."

• Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Quote - I think they're really making an effort to give us something nice, if they weren't they would have just let things go with Ryan.

No voilence necessary--if it's ugly we can design a paper bag prop for over his head and call him the "Mystery Man Tyler".   Hey I give Smith Micro an A+ for listening to users and bringing us a new figure--espcially since they called Allyson and Ryan "new" figures since they weight mapped them and put a 2 after their names.  It wasn't exactly what I'd have considered new, since they were the same mesh and all.

Or we could call him the Unknown Comic. Yikes, I really showed my age on that one ;)

Laurie

Hopefully he'll get more to wear than just that paper bag though, eh? ;-)

Shirts... and shoes...

Quote - > Quote - I think they're really making an effort to give us something nice, if they weren't they would have just let things go with Ryan.

No voilence necessary--if it's ugly we can design a paper bag prop for over his head and call him the "Mystery Man Tyler".   Hey I give Smith Micro an A+ for listening to users and bringing us a new figure--espcially since they called Allyson and Ryan "new" figures since they weight mapped them and put a 2 after their names.  It wasn't exactly what I'd have considered new, since they were the same mesh and all.

Or we could call him the Unknown Comic. Yikes, I really showed my age on that one ;)

Laurie

Oh Gawd! Images of the Unknown Comic's Playgirl Photoshoot just popped into my head! Thanks Laurie!!

This "Unknown Comic" is not so much before my time as much it was just outside my geographic radius, in the 70s... although turns out I do recognse him... or rather don't.

But Google is a wonderful thing...

Well, maybe it's not... having just looked up what SteveJax just mentioned... ;-)

Apollo with one of Carodan's most excellent morphs and 3Dream's Boy Hair. He may look doughy in his default state, but Apollo is really versitile.

Laurie

Quote - Here's my new man - Earl. He's pissed cause all he has to wear is this stupid grass skirt. ;).

Apollo with one of Carodan's most excellent morphs and 3Dream's Boy Hair. He may look doughy in his default state, but Apollo is really versitile.

Laurie

That's a great character morph for sure.

Real humans can be doughy... it's probably not so much of a realism issue, that aspect... and well, dough is good for modelling with, no?

Earl and Mitch the Astronaut should hook up and go for a beer to take their minds off stuff... maybe a round or two of crazy golf too.

;-)

It makes me sad to think of Apollo's potential that was never reached and that there is an even better version in moth balls that we'll never get to see or use.  I wish the Apollo's creator would have sold him off.  I've found with Apollo that people either loved him or hated him. 

i don't like the promo tease.  wahhhh.  why does his neck flare like that?

i have to curl up in a fetal ball and cry.

Am I missing a link to a better picture of the new guy? All I see is a thumbnail and blurb and no link to a larger image or more information.

i just remembered who the teaser's neck flare reminds me of: the tailor on Deep Space 9.  the new figure is a Garrick, ... or was it called a calrisian.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I think they're really making an effort to give us something nice, if they weren't they would have just let things go with Ryan.

No voilence necessary--if it's ugly we can design a paper bag prop for over his head and call him the "Mystery Man Tyler".   Hey I give Smith Micro an A+ for listening to users and bringing us a new figure--espcially since they called Allyson and Ryan "new" figures since they weight mapped them and put a 2 after their names.  It wasn't exactly what I'd have considered new, since they were the same mesh and all.

Or we could call him the Unknown Comic. Yikes, I really showed my age on that one ;)

Laurie

 

Oh Gawd! Images of the Unknown Comic's Playgirl Photoshoot just popped into my head! Thanks Laurie!!

Ok, then think about Gene Gene, the Dancing Machine...lolol.

the gong show?...jeesh you guys are as old as i am...lol... 70's were cool...

:O)

Well, in my own defense I was just a kid at the time ;). The 80's was my decade....lol. Straight legs, jeans with holes, skirts over jeans and Boy George and Madonna hair ;). The worst period for fashion in the last 100 years :P

Laurie

i was married with children most of the 70's, bell bottoms hawaiian shirts , leisure suits ,hair down to my waiste, wife wore hip-huggers and halter tops ... in an 'altered state' most of the time ,life was good, kickin back enjoyin most every minute...wouldnt mind doin it again...

:O)

I was a teenager in the 1970s, it was a difficult time for me and I couldn't appreciate all the cultural and fun things that were going on.  Remember Mood Rings?  I remember I went around telling all my teacher to "Have a Nice Day" and was really out of style because my parents were too old fashioned to let me wear what the other kids were wearing. 

The 80s was a bad decade for me--I wouldn't mind going back to the 90s though.

Oh, I'd definitely do the 80's over again. I had a lot of fun in the 80s. Then I had to grow up and fun was over...lol.

Laurie