I got an email today from Daz offering special M4 and V4 bundles.  I guess they are offering  these for Poser only users.  They are nice bundles for those who don't already have them.  Still looking for new content here, but I'm not finding a lot that isn't M and V 4 oriented.  Well I'm glad that there are new things being developed, we just need to patient.

Quote - I got an email today from Daz offering special M4 and V4 bundles.  I guess they are offering  these for Poser only users.  They are nice bundles for those who don't already have them.  Still looking for new content here, but I'm not finding a lot that isn't M and V 4 oriented.  Well I'm glad that there are new things being developed, we just need to patient.

I'm glad we (my Mom and I) bought all that stuff individually years ago.  It was much cheaper then.

They really should take some bundle lessons from Renderosity - bundles HERE are a deal.

There is absolutely nothing new in those bundles except for more content. 

it does seem a pretty steep price, but since I have had most if not all of that for quite some time its tough to remember how much I paid all together.  Plus it was a different time, a time when my money flowed much more freely into 3d pursuits!

I guess the thinking is that if the poser crowd wont bite on genesis, they'll squeeze whatever cash they can from them this way.  On the bright side it really makes alternate base figures more attractive to the new user, or the old user trying to rebuild their runtime.   To me thats not a bad thing

Quote - it does seem a pretty steep price, but since I have had most if not all of that for quite some time its tough to remember how much I paid all together.  Plus it was a different time, a time when my money flowed much more freely into 3d pursuits!

 

I guess the thinking is that if the poser crowd wont bite on genesis, they'll squeeze whatever cash they can from them this way.  On the bright side it really makes alternate base figures more attractive to the new user, or the old user trying to rebuild their runtime.   To me thats not a bad thing

I'm a pack rat and have kept a copy of every order I've ever placed.  Yeah, I went back and checked.  We got a lot in crazy sales, but didn't pay nearly that price for the same products purchased separately.

The Pro Bundle looks like the same stuff at the same price it was in 2006.

I own virtually everything except V4 Destroyer (which I don't miss!). Much of the stuff I got cheap in PC Anniversary Sales.

Speaking of the PC, the new store roll-out next week turns the monthly PC voucher into a coupon that may only be used on DAZ originals, has to be used in one shot and any left-over balance is lost.  There has been no official announcment of this on the PC forum, only in the Commons.

Looks like I'm going to be cleaning the remaining PC items off my wishlist and heading out of Dodge...

Really WandW? um yeah that would do it.

Just snagged my wishlist full of Lisa's Botanicals! OUCH! But Now I'm done with the PC club and my wishy washy list is empty.

Looks like it would be a good time for Rendo to beef up Prime.

I have PC paid for until end of October, wonder if I can get a refund.

Quote - Looks like I'm going to be cleaning the remaining PC items off my wishlist and heading out of Dodge...

Did the same today.  Checked to make sure that I hadn't forgotten any prerequisite items, and then sent a support ticket to sales requesting refund of unused months (my membership extends to October 2013).

I let my PC membership expire and I don't miss it.

I never joined PC - it was sometimes almost worth it, but only almost, since I don't like to shop at only one store. This bundle would be good for people who are just starting and who have lots of money to spend. I already have so much M4 and V4 stuff that I am not tempted.

Thanks for the heads up WandW.  I've just bought about $20.00 worth of Lisa's botanicals and set my PC monthly membership to not auto-renew.  I also see that you will not be able to pay for monthly PC membership by PayPal, at least for the time being.    As I am not in the US my bank will charge me an overseas transaction fee (about £2.00, in my case) every month - which is just the final straw.

btw the '30 day,no questions, money back guarantee'  has been changed as well. product returns will not get you your money refunded anymore, you just get store credit.

stated by 'Skondris' at the 'new store/forum' thread in the daz commons forum.

I had PC membership for a number of years but let it lapse last year.  I was paying on a monthly basis and found that most months I was not using the voucher.  I still buy from Daz but it must average about one item every six to eight weeks.  My spending here and at RDNA has taken over (I normally qualify for the $100+ voucher each month - I know, way too much) and, as prime started just as I finished my PC membership finished, I signed up for that and I am using that a lot more.

"...btw the '30 day,no questions, money back guarantee'  has been changed as well. "

That was the best thing in their store - the guarantee.

Wow...  Seems like they are removing a lot of things that users liked (mainly because the new platform doesn't support it, but still).

Why launch a new system and then go back and mod it in later?  Just sounds like it's going to irritate folks.

So they are going to zips but before they often cited that the reason there were installers was so that you'd agree to the license.

scratching head

My PC goes in 3 days and I'm happy to spend my money elsewhere!!!

So, come on Rendo, get that Prime membership back to it's intro offer of $25 and you will pick up quite a few members!!!!!

You know it makes sense!!!

All the best.

LROG

I'm sure I won't find it too difficult to spend an extra $7.95 a month here! :-)

Very easy!!! Lol.

All the best.

LROG

Steve Kondris finally posted in the PC forum confirming that it is indeed a limitation of the store software, but they favour reliability over providing those benefits; considering the problems when they switched over to the current version of the Store, it may not seem an unreasonable business decsion from Management's standpoint.  There is some possibility of allowing the monthly coupon to be used on PC items if the order is a minimum of $10, but that apparently hasn't yet been decided...

Perhaps they should also post what he said in the commons for those that are considering the PC.

Not everyone in that PC section is happy about what has been said.

Also, some comments appearing in the Studio section forums:-

LINK

As they didn't know about the new TOS, so I posted a link for them.

All the best.

LROG

I'd not hear that they are going to .zip files, I like the installers because you then have an uninstaller if you accidently place somethindirector wrong directory.  I use my voucher every month and have gotten big discount via PC so I'm keeping mine.

Quote - Wow...  Seems like they are removing a lot of things that users liked (mainly because the new platform doesn't support it, but still).

Why launch a new system and then go back and mod it in later?  Just sounds like it's going to irritate folks.

So they are going to zips but before they often cited that the reason there were installers was so that you'd agree to the license.

scratching head

From the outside looking in, it seems they are working extra hard to anger their most loyal supporters.  Between the software giveaway, and now this, they seem to be going in the wrong direction.

scratching head, too

I'm not sure of what to name it, but Daz seems to have discovered and frequently utilized the opposite of good customer service. Seldom have I seen a company so set of a course of alienating it's customers. Time to reconsider my monthly PC membership.

Quote - I'd not hear that they are going to .zip files, I like the installers because you then have an uninstaller if you accidently place somethindirector wrong directory.  I use my voucher every month and have gotten big discount via PC so I'm keeping mine.

OMG I detest the installers. Always have. Next version of Windows we may not even be able to run them anymore due to differences in operating systems. It was a bullshit decision and always was. We ALL were shouting for zips for years.

Laurie

Quote - I'm not sure of what to name it, but Daz seems to have discovered and frequently utilized the opposite of good customer service. Seldom have I seen a company so set of a course of alienating it's customers. Time to reconsider my monthly PC membership.

Agree with this. Most companies value their loyal customers. Seems like they actually show contempt for them and are working hard to get rid of them.

Was a PC member ever since it started. Not any more. Rendo and RDNA get my custom and money these days. I'm in the Prime and often get RR here. These stores seem better able to understand their customers and offer a more stable and respectful commercial environment.

"Quote - "I'm not sure of what to name it, but Daz seems to have discovered and frequently utilized the opposite of good customer service. Seldom have I seen a company so set of a course of alienating it's customers."

I honestly don't think DAZ is in any Danger of "losing" any significant amount of customers with their store policies.

The for this is obvious.

Where else is there a viable alternative at this point in time??

Maybe some people will drop the monthly PC Club thing but they will still buy from there

To "leave" DAZ is to Leave the latest Vicky& Mike(genesis) and all of the really Good &new content.

Good news about the Zips though as the installers had become quite a problem on the Mac side with OSX 10.7  I had heard.

Cheers
 

To "leave" DAZ is to Leave the latest Vicky& Mike(genesis) and all of the really Good &new content.

If you don't use them, you are not going to miss them.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - "Quote - "I'm not sure of what to name it, but Daz seems to have discovered and frequently utilized the opposite of good customer service. Seldom have I seen a company so set of a course of alienating it's customers."

I honestly don't think DAZ is in any Danger of "losing" any significant amount of customers with their store policies.

The for this is obvious.

Where else is there a viable alternative at this point in time??

Maybe some people will drop the monthly PC Club thing but they will still buy from there

To "leave" DAZ is to Leave the latest Vicky& Mike(genesis) and all of the really Good &new content.

Good news about the Zips though as the installers had become quite a problem on the Mac side with OSX 10.7  I had heard.

Cheers
 

That's only true for those addicted to DAZ figures.

Seems to me lots of folks are doing just fine at the end of the DAZ Poser compatible figures.

"That's only true for those addicted to DAZ figures.

Seems to me lots of folks are doing just fine at the end of the DAZ Poser compatible figures."

Quite true
but considering the times when someone writes "DAZ's Loyal customers"

I tend to assume DS4/genesis users.

IMHO Poser users who are already effectively locked out of the new Ecosystem of  Figure content would no longer fit My definition of "Loyal customers" by virtue of this fact.

Cheers

Example:-

A Store has products that two sets of software users can use. The sfotware makes no difference to this example, any will do.

This store then begins to lessen the products for one set of software and increase the amount of products for the other set of software.

Those that want the lesser supplied software ask for more products for them to buy.

The store carries on and does not listen.

The store has a club that includes incentives for those in it.

It is noted that the items for the mentioned club also drop for one type of software and these again ask for more items.

Again, the store carries on with the increase on one side, while dropping the items of the other to a minimum.

They now change the rules for their incentives club so that one side again has little to nothing to gain from the club.

Now, after reading that, what would you do as a customer and a member of the incentives club?

I have deliberatly, not mentioned the software, the store or the incentives club as they do not matter in this example. These could be anywhere.

I for one would drop from the incentives club as there is no reason for me to pay out a certain amount each month to not get back anything in return.

Would I use the store if I needed something and it was there? Yes I would. I know I would have to pay a higher price for not being in the incentives club, but that is something that would make no difference. If I wanted something, I would buy it.

The above is just an example that can work in any type of business be it IT, recreation, big business etc.

The example is NOT intended to inflame or do anything else but explain a point. Other can and will have their own opinions.

All the best.

LROG

IMHO Poser users who are already effectively locked out of the new Ecosystem of  Figure content would no longer fit My definition of "Loyal customers" by virtue of this fact.

Please, please don't lets get into that type of thing. A customer can be loyal and a Poser user.

Some still buy props etc. and are loyal to various PA's over there as some are also loyal to PA's on other sites.

You are fully entitled to your opinion on a loyal customer, but others may take the comment a bit worse than I did.

I can understand where it came from, perhaps a follow on with how you came to the opinion you did might help others reactions.

All the best.

LROG

Daz will have customers as long as Stonemason posts his wares there. Now, if that changes...

The bit about the zips is great new. I wonder if they will go back and repackage all of the old content that way? I'd re-download all my stuff just to get the zips!

Quote - Daz will have customers as long as Stonemason posts his wares there. Now, if that changes...

The bit about the zips is great new. I wonder if they will go back and repackage all of the old content that way? I'd re-download all my stuff just to get the zips!

ummm stonemason has a store on his site already where he sells some of the products he offers at daz ;)

"They now change the rules for their incentives club so that one side again has little to nothing to gain from the club.

Now, after reading that, what would you do as a customer and a member of the incentives club?"

To be very frank  sir
I am not the best person to respond to your example for the following reason:

I personally believe that joining a fee based
"Club" at any retailer is only a rational decision in a very limited set of circumstances.

Such as when the products and or services are ESSENTIAL to ones Literal Survival or at the very least highly desirable to accommodate a certain continuing standard of living.

Example a "club" membership to a Food or clothing
as you will always need replenishment of these item as a human being in general .

Or perhaps "Fuel" club to get discounted gasoline to accommodate ones lifestyle reference of Driving over public trains& busses
or "travel club" for frequent flier discounts.

Paying  monthly "platinum Club" Fees to feed ones utterly sad & pointless "Digital Hoarding" Compulsion to fill up hard drive after hard drive with "virtual clothing,hair,makeup", is not rational consumer behavior in the first place.
so wether that retailers policies/rules are good/fair/Changing is rather Moot IMHO.

Cheers

Some very valid points.

Most people that have been in the PC do it for getting things at a lower price.

Human nature as it is, people will always try to get things for a lower price as possible.

But apply the example I gave for a Food Club.

Hopefully I'm not going to get vegetarians after me now!!! Lol.

The club starts off as mainly meat eaters, with a few vegetarians.

Eventually more vegetarians are part of the club and the type of meals changes more to vegetarian and the meat eaters have less choice.

They then change the club rules so that the meat eaters are left out entirely.

As you can see, the same example works in various formats.

I think it all comes down to balance.

If one side of the systemstore etc. is balanced too much in one way, then problems start.

It's very hard to make everyone happy all the time, but sometimes business decissions do seem so odd with little to no explanation of how they can to it.

Vegetarians, please note, I'm not against you!!!! I just used you as an example. lol.

All the best.

LROG

"Please, please don't lets get into that type of thing. A customer can be loyal and a Poser user.

Certainly I was a "Loyal Customer" of "Sanctumart".
No matter where he sold( His own site ,CP, DAZ.)

But I was Never a "Loyal Customer"of DAZ inc the company

Many poser user were "Loyal Customers" of DAZ inc. however based on their reference for the latest iteration of  two DAZ original products.
Vic/Mic and all of  the associated content

and even joined that  DAZ PC Club.

Feel free to Go and ask them if they are still "Loyal DAZ customers" now that they can not use  the latest iteration of Vic/Mic ,and all of  the associated content ,in their program of "comfort/Choice" or whatever.

Cheers

I think a lot of people "used" to be loyal to DAZ  the company up to a certain time.

This was because they did listen etc.

After that point in time something happened and it all went pear shaped.

All the best.

LROG

A thought:-

As a Poser PC member can you remember when your voucher would be used within a day or two of the start of the month?

Then it would take longer and longer to use it.

Then it would get near the end of the month and you would still have a full voucher.

All the best.

LROG

Well if they are moving over to zips I for one appluade their change of heart.  It was only a few months ago that someone from Daz stated they would not go down that route and gave a number of reasons to justify their position.  It won't actaully make me buy any more than I would have done but I will feel a lot happier installing what I do buy, I have always hated their installers.

I like the idea of zips, but that has little to do with being a member. A zip would factor into buying a item, but if the pc item is not something I use it's not a factor. Prime stuff is all zips, so it just comes down to if will I use it.

Quote - "That's only true for those addicted to DAZ figures.

Seems to me lots of folks are doing just fine at the end of the DAZ Poser compatible figures."

Quite true
but considering the times when someone writes "DAZ's Loyal customers"

I tend to assume DS4/genesis users.

IMHO Poser users who are already effectively locked out of the new Ecosystem of  Figure content would no longer fit My definition of "Loyal customers" by virtue of this fact.

Cheers

You bring up a very interesting point about what a loyal customer is. In my book a loyal customer is not someone who blindly follows what a company does but more a customer who prefers that company over others and will try to keep that company on course. I do not mean to be offensive but I think you are referring more to a sheep.

From http://www.loyaltyresearch.com/media/thought-perspectives/Customer%20Loyalty%20Thought%20Perspective.pdf

Quote - Loyalty can be defined as customers continuing to believe that one organization’s products/services offer remains their best option. It meets their value proposition whatever that may be. They take that offer whenever faced with
that purchasing decision.
Moreover, loyalty means hanging in there even when there may be a problem because the organization has been good to them in the past and addresses issues when they arise. It means that they do not seek out competitors and, when approached by competitors, are not interested. It also means being willing to spend the time and effort to communicate with the organization so as to build on past successes and overcome any weaknesses.

In a nutshell, loyalty means a customer wants to do business with you and does.

Many people over in their forums are trying to communicate with them so they can build on past successes. They may not be DS4 users. Not everyone thinks G is the best thing for the company even though they are loyal customers. Whether they are right or wrong is moot in this case.

A company builds and retains loyalty by:

(from http://www.customerloyalty.org/what-is-customer-loyalty/)

1. keeping touch with customers using email marketing, thank you cards and more.

Daz has done this in the past but it now looks like it is cutting back on certain perks.

2. treating your team well so they treat your customers well.

Lately it is questionable whether they have treated customers well. For example, those people who spend over four hundred dollars on a program just for it to be offered free a little later. They had to make a big fuss before things were sorted out for them and this is just one example. I'm not even going to touch upon how certain PAs behave towards their customers in their forum.

3. showing that you care and remembering what they like and don’t like.

Only when a big fuss is made in the forum do they seem to remember what customers like and don't like. They cultivated an environment whereas if customers where not happy with things they complained about them very vocally until something was done. Now they are lashing back at the very culture they created.

4. You build it by rewarding them for choosing you over your competitors.

They seem to be more interested in the new customer. Many of the deals benefit the new customer or customers who do not spend much rather than their long term spending customers such as the current V4/M4 bundle which many long term customers already have.

5. You build it by truly giving a damn about them and figuring out how to make them more success, happy and joyful.

I don't think this is happening. There seems to be too many unhappy folks around at the moment, too many posts deleted from unhappy customers in their forum and too many complaints all around the internet. I don't see the happy and joyful customers except for a very small minority.

Therefore, I think the company is turning away their loyal customers whether they are DS users or not. Daz used to be the first place I would go to shop. Now it is the last place and it has nothing to do with their software but more to do with how they treat their customers.

"You bring up a very interesting point about what a loyal customer is. In my book a loyal customer is not someone who blindly follows what a company does but more a customer who prefers that company over others and will try to keep that company on course. I do not mean to be offensive but I think you are referring more to a sheep.

First no offense taken because with your use of the term "Sheep" you have rather bluntly stated what I chose not to state for the sake avoiding controversy.

Your post by and large is very thoughtful and well written.
However those retailer/Customer concepts, to which you refer,
do not take into account several very important factors relatively unique to the Daz/poser market and by extension computer software in general in some cases.

Fear of Change/learning something new.

Fear of some perceived loss of an "investment' in program specific content one has frankly "hoarded" over several years

Extreme almost evangelical devotion& Emotional attachment to one particular software application.

A true lack of affordable alternative options that also offer the same comfortable/familiar user experience.

The above and Many other factors Put companies Like DAZ ,and whomever owns poser ATM ,in a rather unique position of advantage over their users That a fast food chain( for example) would never enjoy.

Much like the control farmers have over a "fenced in' herd "of "sheep"

Cheers

Quote - "You bring up a very interesting point about what a loyal customer is. In my book a loyal customer is not someone who blindly follows what a company does but more a customer who prefers that company over others and will try to keep that company on course. I do not mean to be offensive but I think you are referring more to a sheep.

First no offense taken because with your use of the term "Sheep" you have rather bluntly stated what I chose not to state for the sake avoiding controversy.

Your post by and large is very thoughtful and well written.
However those retailer/Customer concepts, to which you refer,
do not take into account several very important factors relatively unique to the Daz/poser market and by extension computer software in general in some cases.

Fear of Change/learning something new.

Fear of some perceived loss of an "investment' in program specific content one has frankly "hoarded" over several years

Extreme almost evangelical devotion& Emotional attachment to one particular software application.

A true lack of affordable alternative options that also offer the same comfortable/familiar user experience.

The above and Many other factors Put companies Like DAZ ,and whomever owns poser ATM ,in a rather unique position of advantage over their users That a fast food chain( for example) would never enjoy.

Much like the control farmers have over a "fenced in' herd "of "sheep"

Cheers

Thank you for your response. You have given me more to think about. Selling online is different from selling in a high street too but the concepts are similar.

I don't mean to be blunt but I do seem to have a habit for it. I think it has more to do with where I was born where people call "a spade a spade". :m_smile:

My loyalty to any company goes as far as my need and/or desire for the stuff they sell, compared with other suppliers and their respective prices.

I'd buy from DAZ if they sold something I wanted/needed but I've never felt any compulsion to buy there, regardless.

Quote - > Quote - I'd not hear that they are going to .zip files, I like the installers because you then have an uninstaller if you accidently place somethindirector wrong directory.  I use my voucher every month and have gotten big discount via PC so I'm keeping mine.

OMG I detest the installers. Always have. Next version of Windows we may not even be able to run them anymore due to differences in operating systems. It was a bullshit decision and always was. We ALL were shouting for zips for years.

Laurie

The installers for the older products already don't work on OS X Lion, due to the removal in Lion of the Rosetta Power PC emulator, by Apple. 

I've had to run quite a lot of the Daz installers for older products on an old macbook pro and then transfer the files... 

When e-Frontier owned Poser they had a Platinum Club like program and then they released the G-2 series and tons of content for them.  I really think Smith Micro should consider doing something like that again--they are working on a better looking male figure--Miki 4 will be coming out soon and I can't but believe a better looking general female is in the wings.  Any new figures wouldn't do well, however, without extra content for them and vendor support.  I belonged the Content Paradise's club--they even had a free model every week like Daz does--I got a lot of nice animals that way.   If Poser as a software is to survive having content that people will want to buy and use with it is essential.  As my other thread indicates I'm waiting patiently for new stuff, but development takes time.

OH I can't stand the CP store, I hope if they release a new figure they do it somewhere else.

Personally I would like to see SM continue to develop their relationship with RDNA. They already have their official forum there.