xvcoffee wrote "Wiz is taking a Mac v Win thread seriously." I'm one of the most serious Mac people you'll find, despite not currently owning one. I've frequented Mac developers conferences like MacHack (and have even spoken at them). I know the Mac innards, and I know the Apple history. So when people make blindingly inaccurate statements about what kinds of software are availiable for the Mac, or why certain pieces of software are not availiable for the Mac, it really rubs me the wrong way. And when people make statements about how great the Mac really is, and then quote mythology, instead of the real reasons why the Mac is a dang good platform, and a very admirable piece of engineering, it's especially painful. Sort of like "with friends like these, who needs enemies?" Statements like "IBM IS STUPID AN MACINTOSH ISNT" just don't cut it, if you can't back it up. I've been part of development efforts on a scale that most people can't even imagine, and I know that there are limits in the current MacOS that simply cannot be overcome without replacing the OS. Even Apple acknowledges that, which is why they've been working to scrap the current MacOS for longer than 12 years. You should attend a major Mac developers conference (you're welcome to come on down to Detroit for MacHack) and talk to some of the people who WRITE your favorite programs (not the schmaltzy folks who SELL them, like you meet at COMDEX) and you'll realize why so much more major software is written for the PC than the Mac. There are real reasons, and they have nothing to do with shadowy Microsoft-Intel conspiracies, press bashing of the Mac, etc. Myself, I'm a cross-platform advocate, foaming at the mouth. Renderosity members have heard me go on and on about my beloved cross platform frameworks and class libraries like wxWindows, cross platform 3D Graphics in OpenGL, and other cross platform tools like OpenSoundSystem, VoiceXML, NIFF, UNICODE (OK, that's cross cultural). And yes, I can point out so many wonderful and brilliant things Apple has done over the last 20 years that it would make you swoon about what a technological mecca they are. I can do the same about IBM. I could even play Devil's advocate and show you some genuinely brilliant stuff going on at Microsoft (Huges Hoppe and Kai-Fu Lee ended up there, after all). There's greatness and schlock in every corporation. So what. Do they make the tools you need to get the job done? That's the question. Ciao! Joe