Quote - the simple fact is this:

every vendor has access to records of who purchased their products, when, at what price, etc all the way back to the beginning.  its also quite easy to ask a fellow merchant how their add-ons are selling, or if someone has purchased them.  it has been my observation that the majority of people in these threads complaining about lack of support or asking for specific items rarely actually purchase the items in question anyway.  'i want practical clothing for anastasia' - ok, so merchants make something like this for $6 and hardly anyone buys it. 'i want fantasy armor for anastasia', ok so merchants make something like this for $3 and hardly anyone buys it.

the fact is that many merchants are very accommodating to customers, and will make what customers SAY they want.  they go out on a limb and spend weeks working on something, testing it, packaging it, making promos and uploading it.... and then... the very people that asked for it dont even buy it.  theres always some excuse why they cant buy right now, or  'ive added it to my wishlist'.

if you want support for a figure start actually buying the addons. when someone spends an equal amount of time making something for Tyler and gets half or a quarter as many sales than if it were released for M4, then they will never make a piece of Tyler clothing again.

so again, its not the vendors that determine what you see in the marketplace, its the customers. if as a customer you want to see more of a certain type of item in the marketplace, buy it. its really that simple. 

When I first started in content creation, I tried to address the things on people's wishlists. And like you say, they didn't sell that well. 

Bills have to be paid. If content creation is a person's main source of income (and there have been times that has been the case for me), that person won't find it very appealing to spend two to four weeks creating something that will generate only a couple hundred dollars in sales ... they are going to research the market and spend two to four weeks creating something that they are ASSURED will help pay those bills.

But in addition to what Blackhearted said here, vendor/figure support is a little bit more than going out and buying the stuff.  If you like the figure, if you bought something that it could wear, it also helps to do some nice renders that show it in use.  People buy what they see, especially if the render is awesome and out of sight. That goes a LONG way in supporting the figures that you want to see more support for. If all they see are renders of Vicki and Michael, that is what they will purchase.

Whatever else I think of Daz's marketing policies they have been extremely good at promoting their figures and content. Before M4 was released there were several items already in their store for him and that helped fuel enthusiasm. Plenty of people bought clothes for a figure that hadn't even been released. I bought some of them with no intention of picking up M4 - I just bought the clothes and put them straight through XD for M3! :D

But even for male figures Daz always make sure the content is there with the figure, on release.

Seems they even managed to get Poser users to buy Genesis clothing before they could even use Genesis which seems to be some pretty nifty marketing!

vendors make pinup outfits and lingerie because it SELLS. there are like 5000 lingerie items out there that look almost the same as the last yet people buy them because pin-up is mainstream.

its just the way it is. you may as well complain that the earth is round or the sky is blue.  sex sells. so while you may dream of rendering Vicky in a Peruvian train conductor uniform  unless youre willing to put together such a project yourself, commission it, pay a premium price for it, and/or help promote it yourself its unlikely to happen.

Quote - .....Bills have to be paid. If content creation is a person's main source of income (and there have been times that has been the case for me), that person won't find it very appealing to spend two to four weeks creating something that will generate only a couple hundred dollars in sales ... they are going to research the market and spend two to four weeks creating something that they are ASSURED will help pay those bills.

But in addition to what Blackhearted said here, vendor/figure support is a little bit more than going out and buying the stuff.  If you like the figure, if you bought something that it could wear, it also helps to do some nice renders that show it in use.  People buy what they see, especially if the render is awesome and out of sight. That goes a LONG way in supporting the figures that you want to see more support for. If all they see are renders of Vicki and Michael, that is what they will purchase....

But if SM had commissioned you and some other content creators to make a bigger variety of items for Miki4 and Tyler ready to be launched alongside the release of the figures then that wouldn't have mattered. You would've got your money, customers would have a decent starter wardrobe, SM would've proved themselves prepared to stand behind their figures and give them solid support.

That's what I'm attempting to suggest is SM's missed opportunity.... but apparently I'm not typing in English today?

Quote - > Quote - .....Bills have to be paid. If content creation is a person's main source of income (and there have been times that has been the case for me), that person won't find it very appealing to spend two to four weeks creating something that will generate only a couple hundred dollars in sales ... they are going to research the market and spend two to four weeks creating something that they are ASSURED will help pay those bills.

But in addition to what Blackhearted said here, vendor/figure support is a little bit more than going out and buying the stuff.  If you like the figure, if you bought something that it could wear, it also helps to do some nice renders that show it in use.  People buy what they see, especially if the render is awesome and out of sight. That goes a LONG way in supporting the figures that you want to see more support for. If all they see are renders of Vicki and Michael, that is what they will purchase....

But if SM had commissioned you and some other content creators to make a bigger variety of items for Miki4 and Tyler ready to be launched alongside the release of the figures then that wouldn't have mattered. You would've got your money, customers would have a decent starter wardrobe, SM would've proved themselves prepared to stand behind their figures and give them solid support.

That's what I'm attempting to suggest is SM's missed opportunity.... but apparently I'm not typing in English today?

No you're typing in English. 8-)  I totally get what you are saying. At the same time, odds are likely that if things were commissioned, one would also commission "what sells."

8-)

Quote - Whatever else I think of Daz's marketing policies they have been extremely good at promoting their figures and content.
Seems they even managed to get Poser users to buy Genesis clothing before they could even use Genesis which seems to be some pretty nifty marketing!

Quote - Daz have a fair choice of period costumery... and would appear to be shifting it. They do seem to coordinate their releases... it's all quite 1950s over there the last while, in terms of historical gear.

appear being the keyword.  Daz marketing is 95% about hype and maintaining appearances.

their Genesis and D|S 4 gambit was a train-wreck that almost put Daz under yet on the surface they were acting like it was hugely successful and profitable.

if it were, Genesis wouldnt be in Poser right now, D|S wouldnt still be free, and they wouldnt be laying off their staff left and right.  

i laughed so hard i actually peed myself a little in the thread where customers were speculating that Daz's latest 'big announcement' was that they were buying out Smith Micro.

I've got a few scenes in the works which principally feature Tyler, Miki4 and Anastasia.

At present, using them over M4 and V4...

Medieval = fantasy, in my book.  Just needs the right textures.  ;-)

I do like fantasy clothing, but I guess I'm picky.  I will shell out for fantasy armor, but that Black Moon outfit isn't to my taste.  It's beautiful, and I love the gorgeous textures, but for fantasy armor, I either want real protection - something that looks like it will actually be useful in battle - or blatant slutwear (brass bikinis and the like).  Just my own personal quirk.  I find it easier to suspend disbelief when the entire outfit is "way out there" rather than only part of it.

I realize it's frustrating for merchants who make something that was requested, then have the person who asked for it not buy it, but sometimes the product isn't what you envisioned. 

Quote - > Quote -

But if SM had commissioned you and some other content creators to make a bigger variety of items for Miki4 and Tyler ready to be launched alongside the release of the figures then that wouldn't have mattered. You would've got your money, customers would have a decent starter wardrobe, SM would've proved themselves prepared to stand behind their figures and give them solid support.

That's what I'm attempting to suggest is SM's missed opportunity.... but apparently I'm not typing in English today?

No you're typing in English. 8-)  I totally get what you are saying. At the same time, odds are likely that if things were commissioned, one would also commission "what sells."

8-)

Hooray! Someone gets what I'm on about! :)

I wish SM did though....

Yeah, I get what you're saying too, as pertains to the SM figures and launches. Yes. If Daz is good at anything it's hype and marketing and I always thought SM should take a page from that book. LOL.

Laurie

Damnit, I really want that Peruvian Train Conductor's outfit now :biggrin:

I REALLY need to put aside the time to learn to model my own stuff.

The trouble is, that time is likely about 5 years... in terms of my available Posering time. LOL.

Where are those merchant resources Blackhearted? Are there quicksuits for Ryan2 / Tyler and Miki4 out there already??

I know Lyrra has done one for GNDA2... or so I believe(?) which is awesome...

Quote - their Genesis and D|S 4 gambit was a train-wreck that almost put Daz under yet on the surface they were acting like it was hugelysuccessful and profitable. if it were, Genesis wouldnt be in Poser right now, D|S wouldnt still be free, and they wouldnt be laying off their staff left and right.

Holy cow.  Are they really?  :huh:

Quote - > Quote - Whatever else I think of Daz's marketing policies they have been extremely good at promoting their figures and content.

Seems they even managed to get Poser users to buy Genesis clothing before they could even use Genesis which seems to be some pretty nifty marketing!

Quote - Daz have a fair choice of period costumery... and would appear to be shifting it. They do seem to coordinate their releases... it's all quite 1950s over there the last while, in terms of historical gear.

appear being the keyword.  Daz marketing is 95% about hype and maintaining appearances.

their Genesis and D|S 4 gambit was a train-wreck that almost put Daz under yet on the surface they were acting like it was hugely successful and profitable.

if it were, Genesis wouldnt be in Poser right now, D|S wouldnt still be free, and they wouldnt be laying off their staff left and right.  

i laughed so hard i actually peed myself a little in the thread where customers were speculating that Daz's latest 'big announcement' was that they were buying out Smith Micro.

Why do you keep selectively quoting me to miss out the bits where I'm talking about SM's failure to promote their own figures? That is the entire point of almost everything I've written on this thread today and yet you keep trying to make it look as though I'm complaining about content creators. What's the point in that? You know I support your products so why do you have this problem with me (or anyone else) wishing they had better support?

Quote - But if SM had commissioned you and some other content creators to make a bigger variety of items for Miki4 and Tyler ready to be launched alongside the release of the figures then that wouldn't have mattered. You would've got your money, customers would have a decent starter wardrobe, SM would've proved themselves prepared to stand behind their figures and give them solid support. That's what I'm attempting to suggest is SM's missed opportunity.... but apparently I'm not typing in English today?

i think you are missing the point, and with all due respect your expectations are very unrealistic.

i cant speak for Miki since i know little more about her than most of you, but with regards to Tyler, he is a FREE fix/polish for Ryan 2.  he resurrects a runtime figure that most people had written off and gives people more options and more characters to play with in their Poser scenes. he was never meant to dethrone figures like M4 - the entire notion is absolutely absurd.

before any 3rd party can topple the stranglehold customers and merchants have enabled V4 and M4 to have over the market, it will have to be fully compatible out of the box with the gigabytes of legacy clothing that virtually all customers are tethered to.  that will require a massive overhaul of the cloth room/dynamics and an abandonment of the obsession with this archaic .cr2 hack that we currently call 'conforming'.

in the meantime the tools are right there for customers who are willing to devote more than '1-click' to fitting clothing to their figures. theres dynamics, morphing clothes, wardrobe wizard, the morphing tool, freebie clothing fits, fitting magnets, etc at everyones disposal.  most people stubbornly refuse to even try them.

Quote - Yeah, I get what you're saying too, as pertains to the SM figures and launches. Yes. If Daz is good at anything it's hype and marketing and I always thought SM should take a page from that book. LOL.

Laurie

Thanks! I no longer feel like I'm typing into a vacuum! LOL!

Quote - > Quote - But if SM had commissioned you and some other content creators to make a bigger variety of items for Miki4 and Tyler ready to be launched alongside the release of the figures then that wouldn't have mattered. You would've got your money, customers would have a decent starter wardrobe, SM would've proved themselves prepared to stand behind their figures and give them solid support. That's what I'm attempting to suggest is SM's missed opportunity.... but apparently I'm not typing in English today?

i think you are missing the point, and with all due respect your expectations are very unrealistic.

How on earth can I be missing my own point?!

Is it really unrealistic to expect a company to consider promoting its own products a good thing?

Quote - Hooray! Someone gets what I'm on about! :)

I wish SM did though....

 

Shhhh ... don't tell anyone ... check out my home page.

;-)

Quote - How on earth can I be missing my own point?! Is it really unrealistic to expect a company to consider promoting its own products a good thing?

 

yes, to be perfectly blunt it is highly unrealistic to expect SM to have financed the development of a 'medieval wardrobe' for Tyler's launch.

and for the record SM did contact merchants long in advance, gave away incentives and made many efforts to get people on board.  you cannot fault merchants for being reluctant to work with a 3rd party figure when all most customers want to buy is V4 items.

again, since it doesnt seem to be getting through:  merchants make what customers buy. its the way all commerce works - always has, always will. if you want a certain type of item, start buying it and rendering gallery renders with it.

Yeah, I don't want anyone to take my occasional bitching and moaning about SM, Daz or the current state of affairs to mean that I don't like either one...LOL. I USE Poser and nothing else, and fully intend to keep using it and nothing else ;). I also use Daz figures like Mike and Vicky and fully intend to keep using those (tho I almost HAVE to use Vicky 4 with GND4 or I can barely look at it). I also like other 3D party figures a lot. Anyone that knows me knows how enamored I am with Angela (by Ali/Mankahoo) tho I almost never see anyone else use her..hehe. It would be great if Blackhearted made a morph for her, but I've never expected it for the reasons I just mentioned ;).

Laurie

Quote - and for the record SM did contact merchants long in advance, gave away incentives and made many efforts to get people on board.  you cannot fault merchants for being reluctant to work with a 3rd party figure when all most customers want to buy is V4 items.

Yup.

I think randym's point is a good one too.

Although... I have wishlisted the Letterworks Jeanz'n'thongs...

...er, stop it, stupid iPhone...I mean Jeanz'n'things.

The set really stood out. It looks great and I will get it, soon as I'm ready to use it. I hope they do some Tyler stuff.

However if it had been made by a different vendor, in a different style, or lesser quality, I would dismiss it.

Its about quality... as much as quantity, I guess.

Also, it's about style as much as it is the type / category of item.

Its a conundrum for vendors... and content consumers alike, I guess.

Blackhearted makes beautiful stuff. I'd love to buy any type of more contextual garment he made, I expect. I find it tragic... whilst fully understandable... that it's not worth his while making a more diverse range of clobber...

...admittedly not so tragic I could justify paying him hundreds of bucks, or more, for that one outfit... unfortunately

Quote - > Quote - Medieval = fantasy, in my book.  Just needs the right textures.  ;-)

what a lot of people think of as 'medieval' is actually fantasy.

true medieval clothing is a little.... wierd, and definitely not 'mainstream'.

there are some merchants out there making some great medieval stuff - but customers shouldnt lose sight of the fact that it IS a niche item, so they should expect to pay a little more for it than if it were a thong for V4. you need to move an insane amount of volume for a $5 product to be worth your time making, so if you are catering to a potentially limited market then you need to raise your price to make it be worth your while.

The great thing about "real" Mediaeval clothing is I can make and adapt it myself fairly well in Marvelous Designer. But I still buy quite a bit of Xurge's stuff just because I like it and like to support Xurge and also because I'm not too good at the fine "solid" details in MD yet. And just because I can make things myself doesn't mean I don't want to buy things that someone else makes. Especially because they're better at making stuff than I am. My virtual sewing is better than my real sewing, but it's far from great :(

With sci-fi stuff on the other hand I'm no good at all! I need to buy that from someone who can actually make the stuff. Luckily there are some very talented sci-fi clothing creators about.

I know that for me, it is easier to list what I haven't bought than what I have bought for both Tyler, Anastasia & Miki.

Tyler - I haven't purchased the Xurge items, but I will at next payday.  Oh, and I haven't purchased the Kailen hair - not that interested in it.  Everything else that I have found for Tyler is in my Tyler runtime - I'll buy anything except impractical armor (and some hair).

Anastasia - I haven't purchased the impractical armor, because I don't do that - everything else has gone in the cart.

I have seen a total of 11 characters - and all of them have a home in my A2 runtime - I am looking forward to more of them - someone makes them, I am buying them.  Hey, I just found another character I missed earlier - I'll add it to the cart.

Miki - I haven't purchaed Kuroneko (thank goodness I can ditch the tattoos) - but she will join the Xurge items next payday. - Update - she was on sale over at Content Paradise, & I had a coupon - she has joined the Miki family.  As far as clothing for Miki 4, I can't buy what isn't put up for sale.

I am glad I am a member at PoserWorld - the content creators there do take requests.

If other vendors, don't step up, then I have to expand my skill set wrt texturing, converting etc - once I get better at that, what do I need a content creator for?

Quote - Yeah, I don't want anyone to take my occasional bitching and moaning about SM, Daz or the current state of affairs to mean that I don't like either one...LOL. I USE Poser and nothing else, and fully intend to keep using it and nothing else ;). I also use Daz figures like Mike and Vicky and fully intend to keep using those (tho I almost HAVE to use Vicky 4 with GND4 or I can barely look at it). I also like other 3D party figures a lot. Anyone that knows me knows how enamored I am with Angela (by Ali/Mankahoo) tho I almost never see anyone else use her..hehe. It would be great if Blackhearted made a morph for her, but I've never expected it for the reasons I just mentioned ;).

Laurie

Ah, I remember now. You are the one that enticed me to buy that figure. That Lady Gaga morph is amazing and that is what clinched the deal. And that more or less proves my point ... if someone else hadn't mentioned it, or done a render with it, I wouldn't have known about it. So users can promote things without even realizing it.

Quote - > Quote - How on earth can I be missing my own point?! Is it really unrealistic to expect a company to consider promoting its own products a good thing?

 

yes, to be perfectly blunt it is highly unrealistic to expect SM to have financed the development of a 'medieval wardrobe' for Tyler's launch.

and for the record SM did contact merchants long in advance, gave away incentives and made many efforts to get people on board.  you cannot fault merchants for being reluctant to work with a 3rd party figure when all most customers want to buy is V4 items.

again, since it doesnt seem to be getting through:  merchants make what customers buy. its the way all commerce works - always has, always will. if you want a certain type of item, start buying it and rendering gallery renders with it.

It is getting through. Seriously man, I get you. You just don't seem to get me!

I'm not BLAMING vendors for the lack of support. I'm disappointed for the lack of support, but I do get the fact that it's difficult for vendors to take the risk when the alternative is V4 stuff that they know will sell.

Thanks for explaining that SM had tried to get vendors on board though. Maybe they just didn't try hard enough?

Quote - yes, to be perfectly blunt it is highly unrealistic to expect SM to have financed the development of a 'medieval wardrobe' for Tyler's launch.

Hey, come on! I never said anything at all about expecting a Mediaeval wardrobe for Tyler's launch. You're misquoting me again.

What I said was SM could've commissioned clothing creators to build a small wardrobe of clothing for the launch that would have something for everyone.

I only starting talking about Mediaeval (and sci-fi) clothing in the context of what types of clothing people wanted to see for Anastasia.

They didn't. Actually they can't because they do not know how. Daz has perfected the content and marketing side of things with regards to figures, something SM has little experience with. Also it didn't help all the years of them neglecting their own figures in terms of support. That has steamrolled into these figures. Its gonna take a miracle to change the mindset of the consumer and vendors when it comes to SM characters.

Quote - Of course, things like this don't help.

 

^where in gods name did you even find that department? i cant find it

the department is Poser: Girl Next Door and there are about a hundred products.

if you simply put in 'anastasia' as a search term you get 71 results in 16 departments.

while i realise that the marketplace search - as well as most vendors' use of the marketplace search terms and kitting - could use a lot of improvement, it really isnt as bad as many of you here are making it out to be.

i wish some of you would realize that by constantly saying 'there is no content for these figures' - (when in actuality there is a significant amount and growing) - you are doing nothing but hurting the figure.

please stop exaggerating.

oh geez, its in the root marketplace.

the reason there are no products in there is because that department was JUST added and no merchants (including myself) even knew it existed.

i am going to go update my products now. but really, it would be awesome if some of you would quit it with the 'omg theres no content for anastasia' spiel because there are 71 items in the RO marketplace, plus plenty of freebies as well as items in other marketplaces. if you want to see more, buy them and encourage the merchants making them, instead of complaining.

ok, wierd - ive actually just added 4 products to the Anastasia category and none are showing up.

TBH i think its a bug. it shouldnt be in the root over there with the base software, it should be in Poser/Anastasia.  that may be why products are not showing up, and why many merchants like myself never even realized it was there.

ive contacted the store staff so im confident it will be fixed shortly.

Ye.. I thought it was weird being the only figure in the root. Just checked, no items...

I'd just assumed it was an error... it's been there a week or so actually, I think.

Just ignored it since I'd had no bother finding Anastasia stuff otherwise.

Quote - quote "

I don't think it is possible to have him take M4 morphs or textures, but I'm no expert."

DPH is your only hope for that.  He could remap him if you asked nicely and if there was enough demand.

Love esther

 

I don't know who DPH is. But, I'm not interested in clothes here. It's fine that others of you are. I'm interested in textures and morphs. Maybe I just better learn how to do these things myself, if that's possible.

I suspect that as the techniques are learned and taught, merchants will move to the newer figures. However that will take time and until then people need to eat.

As for SM, in the past, about the time Content Paradise started, I did commision work for them, however they eventually STOPPED buying clothing. As I understand it it just wasn;t cost effective. You have to remember SM is a LARGE corperation and the Poser group is relatively small (although deeply commited!) and ehay are going to put their money in areas that show a significant profit. For them, it's not content creation, heck it;s really not even figure creations, it;s the software and even Poser is only one item on their list.

This may not generate more support, but I used Tyler in the first male portrait I have ever done.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2376478&user_id=205820&member&np

I like this morph.

Hey - nice Jetpack and suit Letterworks.

With the next Bond film on it's way, it's of the moment too, I reckon.

I'd certainly snap that up for Tyler.

You make good points of course... as does Blackhearted.

I hope I don't come across as complaining. I'm badgering, yes... but have no complaints.

I am just keen to see these figures reach their full potential...

Like inquire, I'm also keen to see more textures and morphs for them though. Again... I think  merchant resources are the way forward with this, probably. Provided they are of contemporary quality... since these are Poser 9 / Pro 2012 figures.

I'm aware of a couple of MR packs for Anastasia now, yes... but not for Miki4 (I know of one Miki3 one) and not yet for Tyler, I don't think? So I think it's fair enough to try to encourage whoever might be reading to take up the mantle of this...

...in terms of character / morph packs too.

Once again though... I'm looking for quality. To at least come close to the quality of textures that ship with these figures... and morphs beyond what I could manage to do.

It'd be absolutely amazing if SaintFox / Digital-Lion follow up their Alyson2 resource with ones for Tyler and Miki.

I'd love it if Sydd / Traveler at RDNA released some "Oxygen" textures for any / all of them. I'm hopeful they'll at least tackle one for Miki4 soon.

I think we'll see more, at least I hope so, I personally like the Ana and Tyler morphs to the SM figures. I would love to see more.

I'm sort of funny as a creator, I don;t like working with base figures, making stuff for generic V4, M4, Alyson2 or Ryan2 doesn;t appeal to mevery much. Not saying I'll never make anything for them just that it;s low on my list.

There are a few character morphs and "alternate" figures I like to work with. This sort of places me as a nich creator to start with, add to that that I probably won;t be making anything that doesn;t include at least some weight mapped items , and I that prefer to create for, and in, Poser, I've sort of cut down my "audience" by a LOT. Still, it;s what I want to do. We'll see how it turns out.

I hope you're right... well, sure you are actually. I'd rather wait... if it means getting a higher quality product, that took longer to develop, because there was attention to detail.

I know it is being demanding, asking for quality AND quantity... and wanting it yesterday

But, I'm hoping that showing that demand will encourage more vendors to step up and produce... to test the market a bit more perhaps?

As I think I said already, I think niches are good, and healthy, and worth vendors considering expanding into... provided it's a niche that has at least a certain level of userbase... and if you can fill a niche by doing something you are into doing enough that you do it well, then that should only increase the chances of getting more reward for your efforts... because your end result will be of a higher quality?

you can make good money catering to niches depending on how you go about it.

as a new vendor, you can either make exactly what 2000 other vendors are doing, or you can start by carving out a niche for yourself. its a choice between making a product that is a drop in the ocean of V4 pinup products and hoping that it will stand out, or making something to fill a niche where you have very little competition (or none at all).

the important part that many miss is to price your products intelligently considering that right out of the gate your potential market is smaller. ie: if you do make that 'practical nurse uniform' (as opposed to a 'latex skank nurse uniform with clear platform heels'), people that are looking for just something like that will snap it up - its a no-brainer for them because there are very few products like it on the market - but naturally your potential market will be significantly smaller. so dont charge $5 for it, charge a fair price like $15, so that you will be compensated for your time. 

as for customers, you shouldnt recoil in horror at this, but rather appreciate that the item was made at all and show your support. if you are interested in a niche, it should be a given that prices go up a bit. its not 'unfair', its simple business logic and how trade works.  if you want a run of the mill frozen pizza you can grab one for $1. if you want just a small package of organic mushrooms, it will cost you over twice that.

if you want that merchant to continue making products to fill the niche you are interested in, then you need to compensate them for their time invested. on a $5 product a merchant is making $2.50 per sale, so they would have to sell 40 copies just to make $100.

Yup... as a customer, I will be prepared to pay more for a niche item, of the right quality. By all means.

Look at the renapd Napoleonic stuff I mentioned earlier. Not the cheapest clothing sets. but they really fill a niche.

Although... there is a heck of a lot in there for your money actually too.  A heck of a lot. They're a bargain at the price they are really, when you think about it!

This is how I look at it. High prices = less sales is the same as low prices = more sales. The end result is the similar financially except with the low sales strategy you have more people who have bought your product and you end up with more exposure on the market.

Quote - This is how I look at it. High prices = less sales is the same as low prices = more sales. The end result is the similar financially except with the low sales strategy you have more people who have bought your product and you end up with more exposure on the market.

thats the thing,

there are no 'more sales' with a niche item.

i dont care if you make a photorealistic set of armpit and leg hair for vicky. you can spend years working on it and make realistic physics morphs, 'armpit hair blowing in the breeze' morphs, braided armpit hair morphs, 1000 different color variations, fits, styles and shapes. you could charge 99 cents for it. i still dont want it, and itll never be mainstream.

that said, there have been people asking for 'hairy' textures for the last decade and if they really want them they will pay $15+ for them without hesitation.

if your potential market is 20,000 people then sure, charge $3 for your product.

but if right out of the gate your maximum potential market is 200 people, you would be out of your mind to sell for $3 since even if every single one buys your product (and they wont) then the most money you stand to make is $300 for something you spent weeks working on.

this is something that both customers and merchants need to fully understand in order for there to be a healthy variety in the marketplace. as a customer who wants niche products, you want to ensure that the vendors catering to them are compensated enough that they are motivated to produce more of those same items -- otherwise they will simply move on to making something else.

Ok by your comments I am guessing this niche market is really small then. If that is the case then I suppose higher prices is fair. But why go through the hardship of a niche market? There is always going to be this issue. The numbers are simply not big enough to create a safezone to cover costs. You're always at that risk. You are basically going on peoples words who post in threads saying they will buy it. Most of the time people post comments like "Its going straight in the cart" just to express a job well done. Or they want something, and by the time it is complete, they don't need it anymore. Most will just wishlist it and thats how far it will go. Granted, full respect for doing so and tuffing it out, but end of the day its your time and money and ultimately your choice. Consumers don't owe us vendors anything, and we cannot put a gun to their head in buying our products. Shit happens:)

Which is BH's point from the start I think. That's why no one makes the niche stuff ;).

Laurie

Cool.:)

Quote - Which is BH's point from the start I think. That's why no one makes the niche stuff ;).

Laurie

At least, no one who is trying to make a living from it... I suppose

But, there's niche... and there's niche. It's a relative term...

It's not always about the lowest, rock bottom price. Some kinds of item need a sub $8 price to grab my attention enought to buy them.

Some, I'll gladly pay almost $30 for. I'd really need to WANT something BADLY above that. Or have a birthday coming up... recent lottery win... or something.

It's all about getting the price right, for what you're selling and who you're selling too.

I guess...

Well... I felt inspired to get Lyrra's awesome looking developer's kit for Alyson2.

Watch this space for that Bolivian Train Conductor's outfit.

Thought I might try a hooded tracksuit first... Stephanie 5 looks pretty good in hers. I reckon Anastasia / Shae might look even better

Looks like I could manage to model that (with Lyrra's kit to get me started)... if I can get to grips with what Joe wrote in his recent sketchbook thread posts about making a zipper, using ZBrush 4R4.

Rigging it... this will be a different matter I suspect. But got to learn sometime, eh?

Or is anyone else already working on a cool weight mapped, hooded tracksuit for the GNDA2 girls? :biggrin:

Pretty sure once I get this modelled for Alyson2, with morphs for Ana and Shae, I could create versions for Tyler and Miki4. then they can all go "jogging" together...

Quote - Well... I felt inspired to get Lyrra's awesome looking developer's kit for Alyson2.

Watch this space for that Bolivian Train Conductor's outfit.

Thought I might try a hooded tracksuit first... Stephanie 5 looks pretty good in hers. I reckon Anastasia / Shae might look even better

Looks like I could manage to model that (with Lyrra's kit to get me started)... if I can get to grips with what Joe wrote in his recent sketchbook thread posts about making a zipper, using ZBrush 4R4.

Rigging it... this will be a different matter I suspect. But got to learn sometime, eh?

Or is anyone else already working on a cool weight mapped, hooded tracksuit for the GNDA2 girls? :biggrin:

Pretty sure once I get this modelled for Alyson2, with morphs for Ana and Shae, I could create versions for Tyler and Miki4. then they can all go "jogging" together...

Monkeycloud, if you need any help with weight mapped conforming rigging, I'm happy to provide any help I can.

That goes for anyone, especially with the SM and Blackhearted figures.

Send a PM and I'll help as much as I can.

Thats very kind of you Glitterati... I'll certainly take you up on that, if I find I need to... once I get that far.

I'm fairly certain I will need some sort of assistance at the rigging stage, at least.

No doubt in terms of correcting my model topology for bending etc. too, indeed...

...although I think / hope I have a bit more more of a clue relative to the modelling now... and as I'm starting with Lyrra's dev kit... that should help me a lot!

I've been known to buy $50 items if I really want them. To me $15 for a quality clothing item seems quite reasonalbe, and I would pay more if it was for a character who had little to wear (and I really wanted the item.)

I would suggest that a vendor thinking about making something from Tyler make a post testing the waters for the item. Couldn't hurt.