Yeah, Poser 4 renders, for the most part, look pretty bad compared to the latest versions. That was ok, though, because the meshes weren't all that hot, either. There were incredible artists who stood out from the crowd, and some aspiring artists who truly put their heart in their work... just like today. I am going to belabor one point, though: technical perfection seems to have over-shadowed actually having something to say. I prefer a render showing less technical adroitness, but with substance. (Does that sentence make sense?) The "pretty/shiny factor" has increased, I'll grant you. When you're trying to put something you feel strongly about into an image, though, sometimes the demand for technical perfection makes it fall apart. I'm babbling... and I just had tacos for lunch. ;)