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DAZ|Studio F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 29 12:43 am)



Subject: Reality Render thread. A new beginning.


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:08 PM

Quote - I am running Lux 1.1 but I don't seem to be able to access the "importance" brush...  any ideas?

 

  ~ Russ 

the refine brush is not par of 1.1, it is a new development and available only in the weekly builds. Use at you own risk, there is no support for weekly builds.

Cheers.

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:10 PM

Quote - Oh, ok, but I thought 1.1 was the latest, I just DL'ed it this morning.

it is the latest. Development builds should be avoided. They are just that, snapshots of the current development. They are not "betas" and they can break anything at any time.

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


RLSprouse ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:10 PM

OK, got it, thanks guys.


RLSprouse ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:11 PM

By the way, Paolo, how's the Poser version coming along?  I am about ready to shoot DS in the head.


Doctorjellybean ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:14 PM

Quote - Since its gone quiet in here, here's another...

Solitude

Enjoy,

Abi

P.s.  Loving the 1.1 weekly build, the importance brush is fantastic - the picture glass wuld have taken ages to clear without it!

If that is Coventry, then I'm living in the wrong country!

My DA Gallery


AbiJ ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:34 PM · edited Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:35 PM

Quote - > Quote - Since its gone quiet in here, here's another...

Solitude

Enjoy,

Abi

P.s.  Loving the 1.1 weekly build, the importance brush is fantastic - the picture glass wuld have taken ages to clear without it!

If that is Coventry, then I'm living in the wrong country!

hehe, She was on holiday, if you look real carefully you can just make out blackpool tower in the background!   Coventy doesn't have many piers, mainly due to the fact that it's in the middle of the country.

Abi.

WARNING: This user is officially A TEASE!

Rendo Gallery...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=730935

DA Gallery...

http://abijen.deviantart.com/gallery/

Proud artist on...

http://www.facebook.com/DigitalStardust


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 12:41 PM

Quote - By the way, Paolo, how's the Poser version coming along?  I am about ready to shoot DS in the head.

Working on it non stop :)

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 4:07 PM

Quote - > Quote - Oh, ok, but I thought 1.1 was the latest, I just DL'ed it this morning.

it is the latest. Development builds should be avoided. They are just that, snapshots of the current development. They are not "betas" and they can break anything at any time.

 

Thats dissapointing...


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 4:17 PM
bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 6:05 PM · edited Sat, 03 November 2012 at 6:07 PM

Quote - > Quote - Thats dissapointing...

why?

 

Who does not want added noise reduction and faster render times? I have been using the weekly build since I got back from holidays no prblems yet... Sounds like most folks round these parts use them as well.. I do keep both versions...


Doctorjellybean ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 6:29 PM · edited Sat, 03 November 2012 at 6:29 PM

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Thats dissapointing...

why?

 

Who does not want added noise reduction and faster render times? I have been using the weekly build since I got back from holidays no prblems yet... Sounds like most folks round these parts use them as well.. I do keep both versions...

It is a risk you take by using alpha versions. Granted, most of us probably do, but that is at our own risk. No software developer will support or encourage the use of alpha releases, as they can only offer supprt for official releases.

My DA Gallery


bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 6:31 PM

Fair enough


superboomturbo ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 7:49 PM

Quote - Fair enough

No worries Bob. I'm using it too ;-) Might as well break some rules! 

crimsonworx.com; free ebooks and previews

I've bowed down to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/crimsonworx

 


bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 8:22 PM

Im at 30 plus render since my fresh install a week ago not a problem yet.  I only re installed 4.5 (as opposed to having it with 3 before) Since I had the content for the latest 4.5 in my saved DS files, I did not install the added content. It runs alot faster & smoother and wayyy less duplicate errors..


AbiJ ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 8:56 PM

Been doing a bit of promo work...

Forgotten Friend

Enjoy,

Abi.

WARNING: This user is officially A TEASE!

Rendo Gallery...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=730935

DA Gallery...

http://abijen.deviantart.com/gallery/

Proud artist on...

http://www.facebook.com/DigitalStardust


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 8:57 PM

Quote -
Who does not want added noise reduction and faster render times? I have been using the weekly build since I got back from holidays no prblems yet... Sounds like most folks round these parts use them as well.. I do keep both versions...

I understand that but my question was why what I said about weekly build is disappointing?

Open Source Software (OSS)  is different from commercial software. Since the developers works in different locations, often in different continents, the code is modified and stored in a common repository, which, in the case of Lux, is saved in a part of the luxrender.net server. being able to see each other's modifications is important in order to cooperarate. If the developer where not checking-in their modifications into the common repository there would be no other way of sharing the code. Unlike commercial software, OSS has publicly acceessible repositories.

Out of the kindness of their heart a group of developers take the code snapshot every week or so, and they compile it for a given platform. They don't have to. Satva creates the Linux version, Lord CRC does the Window version and Jens and J compile the Mac OS versions. 

Keep in mind that code is developed in a dynamic fashion. Somebody has a cool idea and that developer starts coding it. It might take weeks or even month for that feature to be finished. In the meantime several things are tried. Some approaches might work and others don't. For example, after months of developing Reality 3, which is a complete rewrite of Reality, I have regained the ability to render through it only a in the last 3-4 weeks. 

So, while features are added and finished you have "in progress" code. That stuff might work or not, it might completely crash the program or even your machine. Unlikely, but it can happen. Nevertheless the developers keep producing weekly builds. 

At some point the developers feel that the code has stabilized enough to be usable. That is when the builds are marked as "beta."

Beta software is software that is "feature complete" but that has a few bugs left. The bugs can be actually pretty serious but all the features are in. 

Alpha software is very early software that is in heavy development and that doesn't have all the features. Feature might be added or even removed. Before alpha there is software in development that is so incomplete that will not run at all or only in controlled situations.

So, long story short ( too freakin' late Paolo! ;) ) , the weekly builds are just that. You take a snapshot of the current development because this is OSS. With commercial software you don't have this opportunity. 

 

I hope this helps in understanding the whole deal :)

 

Cheers.g

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:06 PM · edited Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:07 PM

I think this is nice due to the added NR feature. I have yet to have any issues with weekly builds... But I do see your point so how hard is it going to be to adapt to 3 as a current user?


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:19 PM

Quote - I think this is nice due to the added NR feature. I have yet to have any issues with weekly builds... But I do see your point so how hard is it going to be to adapt to 3 as a current user?

It will be very easy. The UI is following the same structure than before but it's hugely expanded. The way Reality 3 works doesn't block anymore. You run Reality 3 as a stand-alone program, that works in parallel with Poser or Studio. 

It adds a whole set of new textures and ways of combining them.

Cheers.

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


bobvan ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:20 PM · edited Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:24 PM

Attached Link: She think reality3 will be cool

file_488258.jpg

> Quote - > Quote - I think this is nice due to the added NR feature. I have yet to have any issues with weekly builds... But I do see your point so how hard is it going to be to adapt to 3 as a current user? > > It will be very easy. The UI is following the same structure than before but it's hugely expanded. The way Reality 3 works doesn't block anymore. You run Reality 3 as a stand-alone program, that works in parallel with Poser or Studio.  > > It adds a whole set of new textures and ways of combining them. > > Cheers.

 

Ooooo that sounds exiting!


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 10:30 PM
kalazar1 ( ) posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 11:09 PM

Hi! First time posting. I've not had much time in RL to play with Reality, but I lave it. Now I need to learn lighting and how to adjust settings etc. Anyone know of good tutorial? Critism is always welcome. I need all the help I can get. LOL Well here's my first pix. Definetly need help with the lighting. Thanks.

 

Daz4.5 and Reality2


RFreise ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 12:08 AM

Posting to jar the ebot gremlin since I'm not getting ebots again


FyraNyanser ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 11:29 AM

Quote - Hi! First time posting. I've not had much time in RL to play with Reality, but I lave it. Now I need to learn lighting and how to adjust settings etc. Anyone know of good tutorial? Critism is always welcome. I need all the help I can get. LOL Well here's my first pix. Definetly need help with the lighting. Thanks.

Welcome to the forums, kalazar1! First I 'd like to say that this isn't a bad render at all for an early try, and I think it should not take much to get it the way your want it.

What lighting are you using? There are three main kinds of Reality lights (and I generally recommend you use only Reality lights and not DAZ lights): mesh lights, which are planes set to emit light in Luxrender; Sun, which is a special Luxrender distant light, and is pretty much as the name suggests; and IBLs (image based lighting). They all have their uses, and can be mixed to a certain extent, but I strongly recommend starting out with mesh lights as they really work like photographic lighting or real-world lights, and I find them very intuitive to use. My advice, therefore, would be to start with Reality mesh lights in a classic photographer's 2 or 3 point lighting set up. I use a 3-point set up usually, but often 2 will create good results. If you Google "3 point lighting" you will see lots of diagrams of the idea, of which there are many variations.

The main light (called "key") and the second light (called "fill") are typically either side of your camera pointing inwards towards the subject and in more or less the same plane as the camera. This means that you will not have a straight-on light which will kill all the modelling in the face and other features of your subject. The fill light will generally be of lower intensity, but you can play about with the balance between the two in Luxrender and see the effects in real time. Although it's considered best to get the intensities set in Reality, this generally takes some experience as you are doing it "blind".

The third light is a backlight, which may be directly behind the subject, so that you can't see the actual light (which must also be quite small), or behind on one side and above the camera frame so that it cannot be seen. Backlights are really effective in popping your subject out from the background, but you might want to experment with this once you are more experienced.

Finally, I think it's important, or even essential, to have your character in a 3D set, rather than having a 2D background matted in. This enables the proper use of shadows and real depth of field (DOF). I aways set cameras to DOF and then determine how in or out of focus background objects are by setting the aperature; a large F stop (i.e. a small aperture) will have more of your scene in focus. Having background objects (or extreme foreground objects) out of focus, even if only slightly, adds a lot of realism to your scene. It does, however, mean setting your camera properly. If you are having problems getting your subject sharp, Reality can help you. In your Studio scene tab, select an eye of your subject (for example), or add a null object positioned where you want the focus and select that. Makes sure this is selected before launching Reality. In the cameras tab in Reality, turn on DOF (if it isn't on already) and click "Set Focus". That will focus the camera on the selected object in your scene. You can widen the DOF after that, if you wish, with the F stop setting. I find that I usually need quite a large F stop value (small aperture) for the sort of scene I do, otherwise the DOF is too shallow.


KrazyHorse ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 11:36 AM

Quote - Hi! First time posting. I've not had much time in RL to play with Reality, but I lave it. Now I need to learn lighting and how to adjust settings etc. Anyone know of good tutorial? Critism is always welcome. I need all the help I can get. LOL Well here's my first pix. Definetly need help with the lighting. Thanks.

 

 

Welcome!  You might not get a lot of response around here of the weekends.

To start with the image you posted is way over exposed.  This can be adjusted this on the fly in Lux.  The more info you post about your render and how it was set up will help us help you, such as type of lighting you used etc, screen captures of the setup helps.  there are some tutorials on Paolo's site, link http://www.preta3d.com .

You can also check out, http://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn , http://twitter.com/preta3d and https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119.

I would also suggest reading or Goggling information on photography such as lighting setups and camera settings etc. Rendering with Lux is like using a real camera in the real world, forget about all the Poser and Studio tricks you won't need them here.

I kind of thru this together in hopes that it would point you in the right direction and give you an idea of what to study.   Hope it helps... 

Keep it simple to start with, use mesh lights and stay away from spots and distant lights.

 


KrazyHorse ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 11:39 AM

Late to the party as always.  ROFL   What FyraNyanser said as well.


Sharkbytes-BamaScans ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 12:13 PM

Quote - It adds a whole set of new textures and ways of combining them.

Cheers.

Just for that alone.. I would be willing to send some attractive person to "thank" you in person.  Now I can quit jumping up and down in front of the Preta3D Universal Headquarters with my sign that says "Give Me More Textures."

I'm still, though, submitting, my bi-weekly offer of my services as an expert beta-tester, bug-finder and problem worker-outer.


bobvan ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 1:52 PM

Attached Link: Hide in here!

file_488269.jpg

This is using a mesh light with candle light pre set and one skies of Reality ibl


kalazar1 ( ) posted Sun, 04 November 2012 at 3:54 PM

FyraNyanser and KrazyHorse. Wow!! Thanks for all the info. I have a lot of reading to do. I'll post a hopefully better image of Guardian later on. Thank you very much.

 

kalazar


Doctorjellybean ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 11:00 AM

For A Few Dollars More (Smokie)

Rich girl she buys her dreams.
It's a rich world behind the scenes.
Green eyes they tell it all.
The more she takes the harder they fall.
She ain't easy and she ain't tough.
She's had it good, but then she's had it rough.
And I guess it don't come to much.
Cos with everthing she's got she's never got enough.

So she'll cry just a little for a few dollars more.
She'll lie just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door.
You know she'll die just a little for a few dollars more.
Even fly just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door

My DA Gallery


bobvan ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 11:05 AM

Attached Link: http://fav.me/d51uf1u

Cool man looks like the same set I used here


59Burst ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 12:43 PM

Quote - For A Few Dollars More (Smokie)

Rich girl she buys her dreams.
It's a rich world behind the scenes.
Green eyes they tell it all.
The more she takes the harder they fall.
She ain't easy and she ain't tough.
She's had it good, but then she's had it rough.
And I guess it don't come to much.
Cos with everthing she's got she's never got enough.

So she'll cry just a little for a few dollars more.
She'll lie just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door.
You know she'll die just a little for a few dollars more.
Even fly just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door

Ahh, nice one, Doc.  Sad, but great render.  BTW, that's an awfully big pile of white, fluffy stuff on the tray.  Asbestos?  ;-)


bobvan ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 12:44 PM

Blow...


Xandi ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 12:46 PM

Doc, what a great image.  I made me want to shower just looking at it.  Such a lonely sad mood. Wonderful job.


KrazyHorse ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 3:30 PM

Very nice Doc...    She looks like she might clean up ok.  When you get done with her, send her my way, bucket of suds, sponge and pressure washer on standby. hehe!

Got one in the works myself but so far a no go. :cursing:


BradHP ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 6:30 PM

Quote - For A Few Dollars More (Smokie)

Rich girl she buys her dreams.
It's a rich world behind the scenes.
Green eyes they tell it all.
The more she takes the harder they fall.
She ain't easy and she ain't tough.
She's had it good, but then she's had it rough.
And I guess it don't come to much.
Cos with everthing she's got she's never got enough.

So she'll cry just a little for a few dollars more.
She'll lie just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door.
You know she'll die just a little for a few dollars more.
Even fly just a little like she's done it before.
She'll take it, she'll fake it for a few dollars more.
She'll show you her heart, then show you the door

What is that set? I could really use that, looks just like what I had pictured in a script I wrote a while ago.


AbiJ ( ) posted Mon, 05 November 2012 at 7:55 PM · edited Mon, 05 November 2012 at 7:56 PM

My latest nightmare (lighting noise was horrendous)...

Where Do You Want Me?

Enjoy,

Abi.

P.s.  Thanks John for the lights :D

WARNING: This user is officially A TEASE!

Rendo Gallery...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=730935

DA Gallery...

http://abijen.deviantart.com/gallery/

Proud artist on...

http://www.facebook.com/DigitalStardust


KrazyHorse ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 12:17 AM · edited Tue, 06 November 2012 at 12:19 AM

Quote - My latest nightmare (lighting noise was horrendous)...

Where Do You Want Me?

Enjoy,

Abi.

P.s.  Thanks John for the lights :D

 

Sweet!   As far as the title goes, I refuse to bite.......................Well, maybe just a little nibble.  😉


Doctorjellybean ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 4:28 AM

Quote - What is that set? I could really use that, looks just like what I had pictured in a script I wrote a while ago.

It is Sleazy Motel (with some props borrowed from Cheap Hotel Room for Poser). The latter is here at Rendo, but it seems that the first one isn't available anymore. You could try contacting the PA.

http://robotmonster.nl/store-2/

My DA Gallery


bobvan ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 10:32 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

file_488329.jpg

Just another view of my face gen creation..


BradHP ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 7:05 PM

Been in a Star Wars mood since the big news last week (still not sure how I feel about that news). 

If anyone knows where to find some decent Star Wars freebies please share. Haven't been having much luck with that.  I found a nice looking Stormtrooper outfit but it's a major pain in the ass to get it to fit to any characters. 


bobvan ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 11:28 PM

Attached Link: Fishy fishy fishy.....

file_488356.jpg

!st using the Reality water prop. The NR feature is brilliant! Please feel free to post more weekly builds.


bobvan ( ) posted Tue, 06 November 2012 at 11:31 PM

Attached Link: entomologist

file_488357.jpg

nother


59Burst ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 10:10 AM

Quote - Attached Link: Fishy fishy fishy.....

!st using the Reality water prop. The NR feature is brilliant! Please feel free to post more weekly builds.

Bob, lol . . . you are demented.  :-)


bobvan ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 10:14 AM · edited Wed, 07 November 2012 at 10:22 AM

Quote - > Quote - Attached Link: Fishy fishy fishy.....

!st using the Reality water prop. The NR feature is brilliant! Please feel free to post more weekly builds.

Bob, lol . . . you are demented.  :-)

 

He he many thanks but I cant take all the credit. It & the character are from the LOTG presentation reel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMlaS5VnBHU&list=FLsTMGafHo6IXZjFooKUIwLQ&index=7&feature=plpp_video  I actually cranked out 36 renders over 3 to 4 days but due to my twist on it Its not really the place to post most of them...


Rayman29 ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:01 AM

My lighting is poor.   Lighting is way more difficult to get right than all other parameters put together.

Even in a smiple three point setup, the variables are large.


bobvan ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:02 AM · edited Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:05 AM

Quote - My lighting is poor.   Lighting is way more difficult to get right than all other parameters put together.

Even in a smiple three point setup, the variables are large.

 

I find it quite simple... One of the features I enjoy. On the other hand after having my machine re formatted, my saved Reality settings did not re load properly, therefore I have had to delete the Reality Data and re do them all..


Pret-a-3D ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:16 AM

Quote - Even in a smiple three point setup, the variables are large.

that is an understatement :) 

Lighting is one the most crucial elements of the scene, together with composition and framing. 

If you are struggling with lighting I suggest to simplify. Three light do present a lot of variables. So, use one mesh light only. Try to make ten renders with only one mesh light in the scene. Set it on the side of the subject. Then move it above the subject. Scale it bigger, way bigger, or smaller. Try all these and other variations, you will learn a wealth of experience in lighting. Once you are confident with the results start adding a reflector, not another light. Just a reflector, which is a white plane set to Glossy. Make sure that the reflector is opposite to the light, facing it and being oriented toward the subject. 

Compare the difference with the same setup but with just the light.

Hope this helps.

Paolo

https://www.preta3d.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/RealityPlugIn
Tw: @preta3d
G+: https://plus.google.com/106625816153304163119
The Reality Gallery: https://reality-plug-in.deviantart.com


Rayman29 ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:19 AM · edited Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:28 AM

Quote - My latest nightmare (lighting noise was horrendous)...

Where Do You Want Me?

Enjoy,

Abi.

P.s.  Thanks John for the lights :D

Nicely done.  Love the wash out with balenced exposure.

Hard to get right...


Rayman29 ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:39 AM · edited Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:43 AM

Quote - > Quote - Even in a smiple three point setup, the variables are large.

that is an understatement :) 

Lighting is one the most crucial elements of the scene, together with composition and framing. 

If you are struggling with lighting I suggest to simplify. Three light do present a lot of variables. So, use one mesh light only. Try to make ten renders with only one mesh light in the scene. Set it on the side of the subject. Then move it above the subject. Scale it bigger, way bigger, or smaller. Try all these and other variations, you will learn a wealth of experience in lighting. Once you are confident with the results start adding a reflector, not another light. Just a reflector, which is a white plane set to Glossy. Make sure that the reflector is opposite to the light, facing it and being oriented toward the subject. 

Compare the difference with the same setup but with just the light.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice, particuley reflectors.   I'm more comfortable with photogaphic paraphernalia.

It shold have been obvious to me.

Thanks.


bobvan ( ) posted Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:40 AM · edited Wed, 07 November 2012 at 11:41 AM

I use a mesh on top a curve light on the side and sometimes an additional side mesh. The important thing is top have them seperated to control them. Its really amazing how it sets them mood and another big one film response settings.. Someone commented elsewhere on my dramatic lighting as I" like the Tim Burton effect."


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