Thats always the best way to find out what is best for you Chrisdmd. Soon I will download the Vue demo myself. Enjoy will be looking forward to seeing your post Thanks for the links Gabi. I see a problem that the lights don't use shadows which I think hurts the radiosity look. It looks more like an ambient setting then radiosity. It would be easier to accomplish if Vue could work with more then a few lights that have shadows. This image was done with 1 light in Bryce 5 and shows the ability to push the envelope further and easier I think. There is no postwork in this image at all, and is another attempt by me for a true radiosity image from Bryce. . Griggs