Quote - Thanks much for your feed back DustRider.

I must admit that alot of what you talked of is a bit over my head but I will look them up, do some reading, follow some tut's, and run some test renders.    

You said; "I tend to try more for realistic 3D in my renders, rather than photo realism". I think maybe that is a more accurate discription of what Im trying to archive and just did not correctly express myself.

Anyway would you please look at the links below and tell me if you think I came close with these renders?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2376393&user_id=234433&page=2&member&np   I love the way her lips came out and also skin around the breast area.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1730568&user_id=234433&page=6&member&np  I dont know, but I think this one and the aover are as close as I have ever come to the effect Im looking for, and it was just a hit or miss thing

Thanks again

Steel

I'll try to give some constructive thoughts on your images. I typically shy away from constructive crticism because my idea of what is "art", or right/wrong with an image may be completely wrong because I don't know exatly what the artist is trying to achieve. Plus, I just do 3D for fun, I have no formal art training, and I can see serious short comings in my own renders. With that in mind, and knowing that you have looked and my gallery and possibly want to achieve similar results, I'll do what I can to help you in that direction.

The lighting and shaders/mats on the figure in the first image look very good, and seems to be getting the effects I think you want. Where the image begins to drop off into the uncanny valley is the shirt/blouse she is wearing. Part of the problem with the clothing is that the sleeves are unaturally smooth, and have a sort of balloon effect going on (not your fault - just the way the clothing is made). The transparency of the shirt actually enhances this balloon like effect. I looks like air is blowing into the sleves and causing the material to stretch smooth and stand off the skin, even where it should be touching the model. In this image, the 3D realism of the figure is very good,  I really like the skin highlights and details. The realism of the clothing does not match V4, causing a bit of confusion in the brain.

This is a very common problem with poser content. The realism of the clothing, props, and human figures not matching. This makes creating images that don't cause instinctive conflicts of unmatched realism between the different elements in a render very difficult. People kind of joke about all the nude renders being done because it's so hard to fit the cloths properly to the figure, but actually there is a lot of truth in that "theory". It's much easier to match the realism of simple bits of clothing and a photo studio type background with a realistic human figure and maintain realism continuity throughout the image.

The second render has a much better continuity of realism throughout the image (but I like the skin in the first one better). I think the lighting could use a bit more work, or more likely, the shaders need to be slightly tweaked to work better with the lights. Her hair doesn't show the details I would like to see (personal preference), increasing light intensities would help, but that might create to much light in the image for the mood you want. Black hair is difficult in any lighting situation, but even more so in low light conditions. Adjusting the hair shaders to be more responsive to light would probably do the trick.

Looking through your gallery, and reading what you have posted here, I get the feeling you are getting very close to the level of realism you desire. Learning more about shaders and lighting will get you much closer. You can almost count on the fact that any two products from any two different vendors will have shaders/mats that were optimised for different light rigs. The only way to optimise  these material for the lighting you want to use is to be able to change them yourself (or only buy from a select few vendors). Regardless of the program you use to render, the interplay of materials with a geven lighting set up is key to the realism of the scene.

A bit more focus on the details in your renders could help a lot as well. Often the most minor detail can be the difference between a good and an outstanding image. For instance, I really like "Aries" in your gallery, but there is something that doesn't quite feel right with the lip ring. I think it's a combination of no shadow, the highlights don't give it a feeling of 3D "roundness", and the placement doesn't seem to be quite right (but that is with the caveat that I'm an old fart, so what do I know about lip rings), and there is no indication that there is a piercing in the skin (this last element no-doubt would have to be added in an image processing program after rendering, or as a part of a bump/displacement map). Don't let my comments take away from your image, as it is beautiful. It's just a very good one to use as an example of how very minor details can make a difference (plus it was an opportunity to mention how much I liked it).

Sorry for the way to long post!! Hopefully you will find something a value in my ramblings.

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