OH DM thank you will try it. Saved as a text file incase I loose track of you too! I bet it would work for icicles too. Also was just over at Poser Forum WG and 3DWizard had a link up, I peeked and I found a snow tutorial! Figured I better put now before I forget. http://www.planet-3d.com/tutorials/snow.htm smiles Good luck with your snow!