Have nothing against acrylics,oils,airbrush etc etc
Hit copy is a lot easier then making molds.
Ya I'm Definitely a CGI Fan.

Have nothing against records but MP3's ,Cool.
Can't say I miss partylines or rabbit ears.

My Dad didn't buy a car with power windows in it till he had to.
TV remote ,forget it ,Momma does it for him. Dad hates tech anything.
No PC's in the house.Momma just learned to text cause my cuss can't talk anymore.

I'm a Artist always have been wouldn't know how not to be a Artist.
So give me my PC and all the CGI App's so I can be the best CGI Artist I can be.
So when I die and stand before the Masters ,I can Stand Proud.

Quote - So give me my PC and all the CGI App's so I can be the best CGI Artist I can be.

Oh boy.

Quote - Okay, let's try ShareCG... (typety type)

Three pages. And I don't see anything for Gen2 yet.

LOL. Gen2 has only been out a couple of days.

Well, DAZ lost me after I paid for a "reduced" price for an advanced cop of DS pro then within weeks of it's launch They decided to give it away free for a (rather long) limited time. What did I get for being a loyal suc.... Er customer and shelling out  green backs? Why the pleasure of seeing all of the "waiting" public get the app free, and nothing else, not even a real thank you.

Sour grapes? Yeah probably, but it was a major push in deciding that I would support Poseronly, even if it cost me sales .The other major factors was the lack of substantial docs.

I am happy not bothering with any figure where I would need to re install DS.

Quote - The only thing that DAZ has that will draw new customers to them is a free DAZ Studio. Established users, have already made their choice. I know many people use both Poser and DS, but I suspect I'm one of many who thinks why should I have two tools to do the same thing. Yes I have DAZStudio installed, but I dont think I've ever used it. I certainly don't desire Gen 1 or 2 enough to start using it...

Yeah but it doesn't retain them. DAZ's lack of documentation is their biggest problem. Most people don't have the time or inclination to do trial and error or wait for someone to answer the same question they've answered 40 times over on the forums.

I'm primarily a Genesis user, my friend got me into DS. Both of us think that Gen 2 is a backwards step.  Gen 1 hasn't been around anywhere long enough to be releasing a new figure. The enhancements aren't that great anyway and could have been added as an update to existing figures in my non-technie opinion. Maybe a technie person can say they couldn't but to me it doesn't look like that big of a deal.

In addition to ticking off the Poser crowd, Daz has now managed to annoy and split the Genesis users. If all new Daz content is Gen 2 focused you've got to wonder if the customer base will be large enough for Daz's bottom line.

Quote - > Quote - The only thing that DAZ has that will draw new customers to them is a free DAZ Studio. Established users, have already made their choice. I know many people use both Poser and DS, but I suspect I'm one of many who thinks why should I have two tools to do the same thing. Yes I have DAZStudio installed, but I dont think I've ever used it. I certainly don't desire Gen 1 or 2 enough to start using it...

Yeah but it doesn't retain them. DAZ's lack of documentation is their biggest problem. Most people don't have the time or inclination to do trial and error or wait for someone to answer the same question they've answered 40 times over on the forums.

I'm primarily a Genesis user, my friend got me into DS. Both of us think that Gen 2 is a backwards step.  Gen 1 hasn't been around anywhere long enough to be releasing a new figure. The enhancements aren't that great anyway and could have been added as an update to existing figures in my non-technie opinion. Maybe a technie person can say they couldn't but to me it doesn't look like that big of a deal.

In addition to ticking off the Poser crowd, Daz has now managed to annoy and split the Genesis users. If all new Daz content is Gen 2 focused you've got to wonder if the customer base will be large enough for Daz's bottom line.

I also read somewhere on one of the forums someone was suspect of Daz and their content and whether they would have to repurchase content for G2/V6 that they already had for G1/V5..  Lo and behold about a day or so from the release of G2/V6 there are now G2/V6 versions of content that came out originally for G1/V5.

I use Poser more for rendering and what not and DS for making poses I never got heavily into DS I find that I just can't get it do things that I can do in Poser far more easily.

I actually feel just a little bit sorry for Daz on this one!

Keeping in mind I've never downloaded DS4 or Genesis, so I don't know all the goings on there..... but so far as I remember when G1 came out there were floods of complaints about there just being one figure for male and female. Now with G2 there seems to be floods of complaints that it's female only. Poor guys can't get anything right! :rolleyes:

Quote - (pops head in)

 

Okay, I'm just going to say this... I'm starting to do textures, but other than that, I'm an end user. I highly doubt that I will ever be much of a content creator besides the textures. I primarily create covers for indie books, and I need lots of free content.

Let's enter "free genesis daz content" into Google.

(hm... hm... type type type)

There doesn't seem to be almost anything here. Okay, let's try ShareCG...

(typety type)

Three pages. And I don't see anything for Gen2 yet.

Now, let's entire in "free v4 content)

(jumps back to avoid virtual flood)

!!! There's a lot out there, let's just say.

On ShareCG...

102 pages.

Yep, one hundred and two versus three.

Now, when did Genesis 1 first come out?

(researchy research)

Okay, I need to keep watching a roast in the oven, so I can't find the exact date. But I found refs to it in May 2011.

It's an Emperor's New Clothes kind of thing, IMHO. Two full years, and there's very little Genesis content that's free out there with a simple casual search. Unbelievable loads of stuff for V4 (and M4, too.)

Guess what a lot of end users are thinking..."Wow, the economy's bad. I want things that are free! Yay! Look at everything for V4!"

Now, I'm a research kind of person, and one thing I've been trying to find for awhile is any actual sales figure for Genesis. I can't find one scrap of information anywhere. I haven't seen anyone else come up with actual, solid facts and figures, and I have looked. That says something to me. There is no transparency, and maybe there's a reason.

So I don't know the whole story, and I don't know if anybody else does either. But this is a bunch of facts that can be put together. And coming out with a new second-gen figure, complete with lots of stuff that will need to be bought and not immediately compatible with the old free stuff without fiddling around, does not seem like a smart business decision to me. A lot of people have already been antagonized by the whole thing. So between the two, I would bet on Dawn being far more successful.

 

 ETA:

SmithMicro is on NASDAQ, and Daz is not, being a privately held company. Now, there are a lot of reasons why a company might not have gone public, but it means that they aren't required to release financial statements. I've been an investor for a long time (a small one...), and I am very leery of private companies. There's usually a good reason why they haven't made stock available as a public offering. This may be good, bad or neutral... but one day, people may look back on this and... okay. I'm not going to say anything else. Just an FYI...

LOL, that's some bad research. 

Typed "Free daz genesis content"... first hit, sickleyield's stocking on sharecg.

Went to sharecg. Clicked the Daz Studio tab.  Latest files, a genesis 2 dress and a male chest morph for genesis 2. Considering it's been out for 3 days, it's something... then go through the next pages and you see genesis 1 freebie clothing and textures. And you say there's no genesis content. I don't think theres even a graduation or golf outfit for gen4, but there's one for genesis. Wilmap has been making freebie genesis clothing for about a year so you may have to go back a ways to get everything.

Click on the poser tab and you find a few clothing textures for V4, where you generally have to buy the outfit from either daz or rendo.

Honestly, I wouldn't make these types of posts to make you feel better about genesis' success in DS when others can disprove it really easy on google.

I'm getting tired of all this Daz hate. Lemme state some facts. Genesis1 is a huge success, regardless what the haters and doubters say. Hence why Daz decided to enhance the platform so early. Genesis2's release has nothing to do with Genesis1 being a failure. Genesis2 is more of an addition that a replacement. Each figure serves a different function. And based on current PA sales for it, it is already taking off in a big way. And no Daz is not silly, they know exactly what they are doing. It was a risk but it is paying off. They have the marketing capabilities and support structures to ensure that happens. Don't take what people post in threads as a general picture of their situation. Some of those who post are often very emotional and are posted without looking at facts and base comments on speculation or biased opinions, fear and hate. (And those who actually post are a very small percentage of the entire market anyways)

Bottom line, Genesis is a success, Daz knows it, us PA's that work closely with them know it as well, so it doesn't really matter if people bash them and speculate their doom and failure. We know the actual situation and that is all that matters really. So hate and bash all you want, it isn't going to change anything, maybe it will make you feel better, but in fact it just creates more of a divide and is not going to make this Dawn figure any more apealling to the mass market. Both sides have to work together if she is to stand a chance. You just look ignorant when the outcome doesn't go as you predicted. OO Antonia is it..no wait, My Michelle is it, no wait Roxy is it....please...V4 keeps smiling. Fanboy type comments without any decent research. And I don't care if I upset some people with this post. I am angry with the maturity level that some people actually have. The comments in this thread are filled with hate and anti Daz comments. It's former Daz people making this Dawn figure by the way. So why hate? Oh yes, sour grapes all because SM wont adopt Genesis, but let's blame Daz for making an improvement while SM are quite happy sitting on their ass just letting users use V4 that is over 7 years old. And also no PA is leaving Daz, they are just helping out old friends. Most PA's sell at different stores anyways. Also I haven't heard of any SM developer actually stepping up to support Dawn, makes you wonder who actually cares about users needs at all.

Quote - I'm getting tired of all this Daz hate. Lemme state some facts. Genesis1 is a huge success, regardless what the haters and doubters say. Hence why Daz decided to enhance the platform so early. Genesis2's release has nothing to do with Genesis1 being a failure. Genesis2 is more of an addition that a replacement. Each figure serves a different function. And based on current PA sales for it, it is already taking off in a big way. And no Daz is not silly, they know exactly what they are doing. It was a risk but it is paying off. They have the marketing capabilities to ensure that happens. Don't take what people post in threads as a general picture of their situation. Some of those who post are often very emotional and are posted without looking at facts and base comments on speculation or biased opinions, fear and hate. (And those who actually post are a very small percentage of the entire market anyways)

Bottom line, Genesis is a success, Daz knows it, us PA's that work closely with them know it as well, so it doesn't really matter if people bash them and speculate their doom and failure. We know the actual situation and that is all that matters really. So hate and bash all you want, it isn't going to change anything, maybe it will make you feel better, but in fact it just creates more of a divide and is not going to make this Dawn figure any more apealling to the mass market. Both sides have to work together if she is to stand a chance. You just look ignorant when the outcome doesn't go as you predicted. OO Antonia is it..no wait, My Michelle is it, no wait Roxy is it....please...V4 keeps smiling. Fanboy type comments without any decent research. And I don't care if I upset some people with this post. I am angry with the maturity level that some people actually have. The comments in this thread are filled with hate and anti Daz comments. It's former Daz people making this Dawn figure by the way. So why hate? Oh yes, sour grapes all because SM wont adopt Genesis, but let's blame Daz for making an improvement while SM are quite happy sitting on their ass just letting users use V4 that is over 7 years old. And also no PA is leaving Daz, they are just helping out old friends. Most PA's sell at different stores anyways. Also I havent heard of any SM developer actually stepping up to support Dawn, makes you wonder who actually gives a damn about you at all.

Accept it is not SM forcing users to use a 7 year old figure, Poser users are doing by choice because they do not like the alternative.  Does that stop Genesis being a success, No.  Does that mean we all hate Daz, No.  Does that make Poser users hate all daz users No. 

You can say what you like about the success or not of Genesis, I don't really care and would not take it on the word of just Genesis vendors if I was.

The buzz from Dawn appears to be more about a company that may be interested in looking after customers than just a figure.

Now lots of peoples wish list at Daz are looking quite slim.  The fault of Genesis NO, the fault of Daz haters No.  Go figure, but I know what is exciting me at the monent and it is not Genesis in any form.  No emotions, no hate just looking to spend my money somewhere that will provide what I want.

PAs are leaving DAZ.  All LisaB's plants are gone from the DAZ store today.  She was in charge of the Platinum Club.  Now she's gone.

KenG's birds are also gone from the DAZ store.

Quote - Honestly, I wouldn't make these types of posts to make you feel better about genesis' success in DS when others can disprove it really easy on google.

Success in ds, probably.  Success in taking over the world lke they thought it would, Hmm.  Maybe not.  From what I read here and on rdna, the majority of Poser users treat the gray blob like poison ivy.  Main reason, dson and ds required to do anything worth while, neither of which are stable or consistent. Or documented.

Pssst!  Fanboi! I can say it here and it won't be censored, "Dawn"! 

I've been playing with Roxie and some clothing for Kate in the fitting room, and it works.  Very very well.  Very nice to have the program transfer the joints and morphs for me, as well as the ability to eliminate the "boob socks". 

Genesis?  No thanks.  I'm driving.

Doric.

Quote - PAs are leaving DAZ.  All LisaB's plants are gone from the DAZ store today.  She was in charge of the Platinum Club.  Now she's gone.

KenG's birds are also gone from the DAZ store.

Plants and birds, how does that equate to Dawn support? I am specifically speaking about PA's that develope for human figures. If you want to mention PA's in general then yes, lots of Daz PA's leave and lots of new ones appear. That is common practice. But they aren't leaving because of Dawn. I see no relation in that regard. Maybe they are leaving to help build up the new site with content.

Quote - > Quote - PAs are leaving DAZ.  All LisaB's plants are gone from the DAZ store today.  She was in charge of the Platinum Club.  Now she's gone.

KenG's birds are also gone from the DAZ store.

Plants and birds, How does that equate to Dawn support? I am specifically speaking about PA's that develope for human figures. If you want to mention PA's in general then yes, lots of Daz PA's leave and lots of new ones appear. That is common practice. But they aren't leaving because of Dawn. I see no relation.

Well spotted, your right, it has little to do with Dawn support and more about Hivewire 3D.

It just points to a trend, people get upset with a company that sold something that would never be free again and then three or so months later it is back free for a short period of.....a year and counting.  Other stop shopping there because they no longer sell what they want.  Does that make said company go bust, not if the new product brings in even more new customers. 

Stage 2 products start to disappear, clearly not ones that you rate but others did, I have both birds and plants from both, others had them in there wish list.  Does this make a company go bust, no, not if products are added from others.  What can be surmmised however it that the profits will not be as big as they would have been if all these people had been kept on board.

Quote - Now lots of peoples wish list at Daz are looking quite slim.  The fault of Genesis NO, the fault of Daz haters No.  Go figure, but I know what is exciting me at the monent and it is not Genesis in any form.  No emotions, no hate just looking to spend my money somewhere that will provide what I want.

Again, assumptions and speculation with the wishlist comment. Also how do you even know this figure will provide what you want? Have you seen it properly? Have you tested it's capabilities?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - PAs are leaving DAZ.  All LisaB's plants are gone from the DAZ store today.  She was in charge of the Platinum Club.  Now she's gone.

KenG's birds are also gone from the DAZ store.

Plants and birds, How does that equate to Dawn support? I am specifically speaking about PA's that develope for human figures. If you want to mention PA's in general then yes, lots of Daz PA's leave and lots of new ones appear. That is common practice. But they aren't leaving because of Dawn. I see no relation.

Well spotted, your right, it has little to do with Dawn support and more about Hivewire 3D.

It just points to a trend, people get upset with a company that sold something that would never be free again and then three or so months later it is back free for a short period of.....a year and counting.  Other stop shopping there because they no longer sell what they want.  Does that make said company go bust, not if the new product brings in even more new customers. 

Stage 2 products start to disappear, clearly not ones that you rate but others did, I have both birds and plants from both, others had them in there wish list.  Does this make a company go bust, no, not if products are added from others.  What can be surmmised however it that the profits will not be as big as they would have been if all these people had been kept on board.

This is true, and why vendors shift products from store to store. Sometimes sales taper off if on a site if there for too long, but if re-released on a new one, can breath new life and genererate fresh revenue for them.

ZevO, remember?  daz abandoned the poser users.  Then insulted us with a "fix" that isn't a fix, and a lot of us aren't going to destabilize our machines to use.  DS doesn't run in my machines, but that's no problem.  Don't install it.  Therefore, no need for dson either.  As far as something for Poser users, daz hasn't released anything but a few more bits of slutwear for a seven year old figure that has more magnets than a surplus store. 

Umm, no.  I'm not interested in destabilizing my computer to change the config so it will run ds either.  Just as SM is not interested in destabilizing Poser so it can use one more figure. 

No, Roxie isn't going to be the figure that removes the crown from the aging Vargas girl.  But she's usable, she's realistic looking, she's easy to work with, a lot easier than any of the daz figures.  I don't have to fork out an additional fifty bucks to get the morphs, they're included.  Don't like the face?  That little tab saying "FACE" makes changing that easy, with an infinite number of faces possible.

But until the gene thing runs natively in Poser, without needing ds or dson, "DUD".

Doric.

I'm sure Ken's birds will be for sale at Hivewire, but he's doing more than birds.  He's talked about the stuff he's doing for Dawn in the Dawn thread.

And Lisa's done clothing and stuff, not just plants.

Just because Ken's known for his birds and Lisa's known for her plants doesn't mean they can't do anything else. 

Quote -  DS doesn't run in my machines, but that's no problem.  Don't install it.

This comment has always left a question mark in my head? What are your system specs? Surely if you can run Poser102014, Daz studio should work without any issues.

Quote - I'm sure Ken's birds will be for sale at Hivewire, but he's doing more than birds.  He's talked about the stuff he's doing for Dawn in the Dawn thread.

And Lisa's done clothing and stuff, not just plants.

Just because Ken's known for his birds and Lisa's known for her plants doesn't mean they can't do anything else. 

I didn't say they cannot do anything else. I was implying that the change in stores might be to give the new one a boost where they themselves might benefit as well. Yes they might develope for Dawn, but why move everything else across?

Zev0, I actually love your products, and your attitude towards customers. You seem to take a pro-active approach towards supporting your products and engaging in the community.

On the other hand, I have seen a change at DAZ3D over recent years. Once upon a time I remember when DAZ use to be humbled by the community and pro-active, now they just seem arrogant and aloof. Maybe that isn't their intention, but that is the result.

For me it's not just Gen 1 or 2 that I have no interest in, but Daz's percieved attitude. It's just not the same "nice company to do business with", like it was a few years ago.

Quote - Yes they might develope for Dawn, but why move everything else across?

From Ken's web site:

Quote - There's no easy way to say it so I'll just blurt it out... I have decided to leave my publisher, DAZ3D.  Over the last few years,  the gulf in my business relationship with DAZ has widen, so to coin an over-used phrase; I'm parting over "artistic differences".

Quote - > Quote -  DS doesn't run in my machines, but that's no problem.  Don't install it.

This comment has always left a question mark in my head? What are your system specs? Surely if you can run Poser102014, Daz studio should work without any issues.

I have no idea why it won't run, and that's not one, but several computers, none of which are on line, none which will be allowed on line until they reach the "obsolete" stage, at which time they will replace the one I use for on line purposes.  All I'm aware, when I tried installing it, yes, it installed, but the first time it fired up, crash to desktop.  Then some of the other software I have became quirky, where it had been stable before.  Restore to the point before installing ds, everything normal again.  Draw conclusions from that.  I'm not interested enough to go find out why, ds doesn't offer anything I'm looking for anyhow.  They're stable as they are, I'm not going to go playing where I shouldn't have to.  That was when 4.5 was first released, downloaded but never installed, so it should give an approximate time since I've even thought about using it.

Doric.

I had the same experience. Installed OK but as soon as I fired it up crashed to desktop.  That was just after it had become free again.

I later built a new computer, the specs are below and, more out of interest than anything else I tried again, same thing, install, start, crashed to desktop.  Everything else works fine with the exception that recently Luxrender would bluescreen when going render via GPU.  No such problem with CPU.  Otherwise a stable system on all except Daz Studio, I have no idea why and was afraid if I changed too much it would screw up other programs. 

As I work in a computer repair shop, when I get home I like to render not play with PC configs so I gave up.

Hmm.. that is strange...your specs look good. I'll ask the Daz techies what the possible reasons for this could be..Hopefully they have a list compiled somewhere of possible conflicts..But this is Daz, thats if they have that documented anywhere lol.

I'm not as adventurous as I once was, if I have to go into the msconfig, forget it.  When I frequented such places as the daz forums, I had people explain what I had to change to make it work, but they neglected to say what might stop working if I made the changes.  I kinda like being able to kill one program and start another without having to reconfig the system.  Somehow, it just makes more sense.

Doric.

It's my opinion that not everything is a formula or based on a specific process.  There are many other reasons that artists do things beyond profit margins, popular support or whatever else someone finds to be an ideal that galvanizes folks together.

Artists are also driven by passion, their environment (online or not), their peers and all sorts of other touch-feely-fuzzy things.  I wager that a lot of people do this because they want to be independent and not truly employed.  Most of us have been there, know what its like, know how hard it can be to find a great employer, good working conditions and so on.

I feel like okay, DS and Genesis floats your boat? Fantastic!  Being at DAZ does it for you? Awesome!  But some folks feel that way about Poser (with or without true or perceived shortcomings or whatever else is cited).  Some folks feel that way about RDNA or Renderosity or YUR or wherever else they want to call home.

I just don't get that someone cannot calculate that people might want something different than they want.  That's how it comes across on some of these threads where people are arguing and pointing and griping.  Want galvanization?  All this fighting and nonsense does nothing but firmly entrench each person on their position.

Quote - > Quote -  DS doesn't run in my machines, but that's no problem.  Don't install it.

This comment has always left a question mark in my head? What are your system specs? Surely if you can run Poser102014, Daz studio should work without any issues.

Nope.  The first version of DS4 that ran on my machine (Mac Pro 1,1, running 10.6.8) was 4.5 & that took direct intervention by DAZ's CTO to get DAZ's "programmers" to recompile some of the libraries that DS uses.

hmm...have you guys submitted a ticket? They do get back to you.

Quote - hmm...have you guys submitted a ticket? They do get back to you.

No I did not submit a ticket but that was because I was not sure I wanted to proceed and use Studio but I was prepared to give it a try.  When it did not work I felt the support should go to those who were already using Studio or doing so for the first time rather than some one who was tinkering at the edges.

Quote - hmm...have you guys submitted a ticket? They do get back to you.

No.  The first release, I did get to run in a laptop, which I had no intention of leaving it in.  It was just curiosity to see if it worked.  But the next release, I have no idea how many .X were behind it, no longer ran.  Enough, the software wasn't consistent or stable, time to quit fooling around and remove it,

Doric.

Cool. Well hope maybe at some stage it does work for you guys. It is handy for doing content convertions and content creation, even if you don't use Genesis. Specially with Dawn arriving, if there is DS only content for her you can convert it yourself.

Quote - > Quote - Okay, let's try ShareCG... (typety type)

Three pages. And I don't see anything for Gen2 yet.

LOL. Gen2 has only been out a couple of days.

But you have to admit... it's true! ;) Yep, it's probably still a little too early to expect that. BUT... Gen1 has been out for two years, as we all know. I really do not want to disrespect anyone, but 102 is more than 3. Pages and pages and pages of immediate results on a Google search for V4 is more than having to dig and dig and dig for free Genesis content. It doesn't mean there's none. It means there isn't as much. I really respect everyone here, but I have to stand by what I wrote.

I'm not an expert on any of this, trust me... I just came back to Poser almost exactly two months ago; I've used PS and other Adobe CS stuff for a long time. I've done a lot of photography, but I'm not a good enough draftsperson to just use physical media, I TOTALLY admit. Frank Frazetti I am not! But business models and marketplace behavior... THOSE, I do know more about. I'm sad about the way things are going, because I've seen it before, I've seen the ultimate results, and I'm afraid that I now see the writing on the wall. That having been said, it has nothing to do with the software or the products, and I think that these would continue to be available and possibly improved in a Chap. 11 or 13 situation. I'm excited about the future of 3D, and I hope that users continue to get together and share ideas and work. I've learned so much from these boards in such a short time. :)

Quote - > Quote - Now lots of peoples wish list at Daz are looking quite slim.  The fault of Genesis NO, the fault of Daz haters No.  Go figure, but I know what is exciting me at the monent and it is not Genesis in any form.  No emotions, no hate just looking to spend my money somewhere that will provide what I want.

Again, assumptions and speculation with the wishlist comment. Also how do you even know this figure will provide what you want? Have you seen it properly? Have you tested it's capabilities?

Have you tested Dawn etc? You havent. if you did, youd be under NDA and required to keep quiet and let the owners and marketing peeps do their job.

Have you heard of this little thing called reputation and customer confidence - that thing DAZ used to have.  I know, i know, ometime when you ate on the inside and chatting with a small group of like minded people, its hard to see forest from the trees.

You can get pissy all you want that your beloved daz is getting dissed.... unfortunately, those are consequences of their own actions. Most of the people dissing it today were once daz fans, often doing the vwry same thing you are doing now, trying to defend it with zeal. Been there, done that, habe the t-shirt.

The big irony is, makers of Dawn are the people from the time DAZ used to have great reputation and consumer confidence. The people, the company leaders who made DAZ great at one time. Since the past performance is the fest predictor of the future, do I believe they can do it again? Hell yes. Even better then the first time. These guys are the old DAZ we used to know and love.

I've seen a few posts regarding DSON requiring DS to be installed to use.

This is not true.

DSON plays quite well with PoserPro2012 on my (gasp)Vista machine, and I don't have DS installed.

I've been playing with Gen1 for a bit... it's okay. Not the greatest replacement for V4 though IMHO.

From what I'm reading about V6/Gen2 here and in the product decriptions over at DAZ, I'd say it's definitely a dud for those already using Gen1. More hoops to jump through for clothing and hair AND textures? COME ON!!

Conniekat8's "Even better than the first time", I have to agree.  Also, nobody has seen the figure yet, a selected few, okay, but NDA again so the rest of us have to wait.  The dire prediction that it will fail for lack of support, another statement made without knowing what's going on that we have no knowledge of. 

But, with the advancements made over the years, it would be hard to come out with a figure that doesn't bend at least twice as well as the vicky things, or one that is more easily morphed.  But to just say "It ain't gonna", with zero knowledge, the only answer is the market will decide that. 

What is gonna happen is a lot of people are going to buy P10 or PP2014, open the figure and decide without even looking at it that it has no use.  Never mind it has a pretty decent morph pack built in, and the face room, which most will ignore.  The very things that prompted them to buy the package, no, they're not going to bother taking the time to do any work.  The people that do take some time will find they have a very flexible package to work with, and it isn't that hard to work with. 

The object of tools is to make things possible.  If they're not used, nothing is possible beyond what you shell out the bucks for.

Doric.

Quote - > Quote - Now lots of peoples wish list at Daz are looking quite slim.  The fault of Genesis NO, the fault of Daz haters No.  Go figure, but I know what is exciting me at the monent and it is not Genesis in any form.  No emotions, no hate just looking to spend my money somewhere that will provide what I want.

Again, assumptions and speculation with the wishlist comment. Also how do you even know this figure will provide what you want? Have you seen it properly? Have you tested it's capabilities?

Yep I will take your first point I was not specific, some peoples wish lists have become thin because they have stated so here.  Mine was not one of them as it has been empty for over 18 months. 

Your right I do not know if the new figure will be right for me.  I do know that I am likely to buy plants and the like from the new site because I have in the past and stopped when I stopped dealing with Daz. Nothing to do with Genesis, or the vendors or the quality of the product more to do with ethics.  Like not lying to someone, charging them the earth by saying a product will no longer be free and then making it.......free.  OK if you change your mind but offer some re-dress to those who paid up on the basis of fact that was out of date in weeks. Was it Illegal No, Ethical NO.  Sharp business practice yes.

Nothing to do with Daz hate. I just hate seeing poor regard for customers from anyone.  I have shopped there in the past an would do again if they showed they had some respect for their customers.

For the record I did not pay for Studio but I hate seeing people ripped off.  I see it almost every working day when customers bring in computers that have been 'repaired' by companies with little or know knowledge of what they are doing.  The comuters do not work,and are probably in worse condition than before the repair, and they have been charged way over the going rate.  I try to correct the situation as quickly and a cheaply as possible.  I cannot have any effect on poor regard for customers on the Internet other than to not shop there.

Dawn may be something I want to use and it may not but that is not the point, I am excited by the passion of the team and the way they appear to want to do business.  If Dawn was being advertised by Daz I would not believe a word as I could not sort the fact from the hype.......I'm still waiting for the game changer, I think it has been filed with their documentation.

Quote - hmm...have you guys submitted a ticket? They do get back to you.

They may get back to you (as a genesis vendor), but they certainly don't get back to the customers.

Yep, in my case, I submitted my bug when DS4 came out - I was certainly willing to try genesis out.  I waited 6 months, and checked the bug tracker every damn day.  Then one fine day the CTO made the mistake of speaking up in the Commons forum, I PMed him directly about my bug (and the bug tracking number) and lo and behold, 24 hours later, the OSX version was updated with recompiled Qt libraries. 

And the programmer swears up and down that of the 300+ bugs with the severity code of  "Crash", he just happened to randomly pick mine.

I have multiple bug reports that have sat in Mantis for YEARS, that never got beyond "submitted".

Are you aware of the fact that Hexagon wouldn't run in OSX for 4 YEARS?  The only reason that got fixed at all was to add the "go to DAZ" feature.

I almost fell out of my seat when Richard Hastline admited in the Commons forum that DAZ doesn't keep the Mantis bug tracker updated.

Sorry, but it has been strictly amatuer hour with their "programmers" over at DAZ for years.

And this is the kind of crap that builds up peoples attitudes toward the company.  The fools running the show over there really do believe they have an infinite amount of customer good will - in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

Quote - ! But business models and marketplace behavior... THOSE, I do know more about. I'm sad about the way things are going, because I've seen it before, I've seen the ultimate results, and I'm afraid that I now see the writing on the wall. That having been said, it has nothing to do with the software or the products, and I think that these would continue to be available and possibly improved in a Chap. 11 or 13 situation. I'm excited about the future of 3D, and I hope that users continue to get together and share ideas and work. I've learned so much from these boards in such a short time. :)

I think you are very right from a business point of view. DAZ manouvering smacks of something burning under their feet to hit a big one, or else. They havent hit a big one since V4, and thats a long time. Content sales frm her are no longer sufficient to support the store AND software development. 

My take is that daz has been overextended for a while and the investors ae looking for returns on the capital already, and getting tired of returns way below the projected. You know there have been investors, daz had press releases about it, not so much in poserdom, but elsewhere. Daz was piositioning themselves for serioys expansions, but none of them caught on beyond the aveage market percentage capture. (Dynamic clothing, gaming marketplace, bryce, cararra and hexagon, genesis... are the ones I cam recall off the top of my head)

Quote - The big irony is, makers of Dawn are the people from the time DAZ used to have great reputation and consumer confidence.

That's the reason DAZ Studio and Poser users alike are so excited.

Quote - The people, the company leaders who made DAZ great at one time. Since the past performance is the fest predictor of the future, do I believe they can do it again? Hell yes. Even better then the first time. These guys are the old DAZ we used to know and love.

Exactly.

Coldrake

New Poser versions get more and more techy and less newbie friendly which has drawn newbies to DAZ Studio,  while DAZ has gone more newbie friendly but isolationist which has screwed the 3rd party vendor market - the market that has kept this entire thing alive for all these years.

I want to load the character in, add clothes in that match the character's poses immediately and not need a degree in physics to know how the materials and render engine interact with the lights. That's what made me interested in Poser 4 and Vicki2.

A lot of folks who have bought content over the years want to be able to use that content when new versions of 3d people are released... because they INVESTED in those clothes and skins and poses. Genesis was a great idea for this because you could use Gen3 clothes on Gen5 people. The problem is you have to convert this clothing item and run that script and watch 15 tutorials and read the forums every day to know how to use it because Poser and DAZ forgot what paid their rent all these years - not trying to emulate the top end apps, but focusing on EASE OF USE.

DAZ is winning the ease of use battle, but the huge base of long-term customers are using Poser... not DAZ... and it's screwing the vendors who are getting half the income they could be getting.

I blame the companies behind DAZ and Poser.

I use Poser Pro 2010 and Vicki4... they work fine and have tons of support.

Make me want to buy a newer Poser. Make me want to invest in a newer Vicki. Don't just assume I will because I always have.

Ya know, I remember when V4.0 first appeared: The vendors changed over from V3 to V4 in about a month. (Both figs were Poser compatible)
It wasn’t that V4 was perfect or too good, but she was compatible.

When I first heard about Genesis it was already several weeks old and there was only a few DAZ made clothing sets/characters for it.
I waited to see what happened… (Taps fingers…)… Had a birthday… Watch DAZ’s site crumble through one site version to another really flaky version… Waited for them to sort it out…
(Bought a load of V4 stuff here - Wasn’t going to risk DAZ’s site)… Waited for things to improve…
Eventually they did…
Waited for DAZ to get the message that Genesis stuff wasn’t selling…
(This was mostly because Poser users wanted a Poser native version) Waited for them to get the message… More waiting… Had another birthday…
Gave Up!

Vendors saw that Genesis and V5 were not selling, so they started making fixes to improve V4.2 while Genesis and V5 were going nowhere

Look DAZ have to understand the “Basic” concept that if they want our money, they’ve GOT to supply the product in a format WE want. Not the one they judge us peasants to want.
(DUF beer anyone?)

Well I gave up on DAZ - But fairs fair, I checked back occasionally - But no deal, it was DSON or nothing.
So I gave them what they wanted… NOTHING!

I’m very at home here on Renderosity - Watching all the new V4 stuff Still being released…

Ho yeah, If you’re a DS gen1/2 vendor - well, just don’t be too worried about my apathy towards genesis content. (One person won’t hurt your sales)
I’d be far more concerned about the DAZ management and its lack of touch with poser content reality.

Nuff Said.

Yeah, that's the thing. To make me move away from V4 then a new figure's got to be able to give me something (lots of something) that V4 doesn't. So far nothing else is even coming close. Genesis didn't make me want it or DS4, Rex and Roxie don't make me want PP2014. The new Dawn figure looks very much like she's going to be V# with a new hat. Anastasia was good because she was something a bit different, but lack of support for her left me with little inspiration to use her. V4 was too good at her job and has too much staying power to be shifted aside very easily.

The extent to which daz has gone on the path they want us to follow isn't hard to see.  There never was even a D4, but there is for the g thing.  Luke and Laura, nothing, until the g thing.  Someone weight mapped David, giving him a little more time.  V4 was weight mapped, some improvement but far from a figure designed with that in mind. 

How can anyone say Dawn is going to be "V# with a new hat?"  As far as I know, nobody has seen her yet.  But she looks like it?  Based on what?  Based on one morphed render by Sarsa?  From that, we deduce that she's "V# with a new hat"?

Lack of support for (Name least favored figure here), what do you need?  Another figure with ten thousand pieces of skankwear or impractical fantasy armor? 

Yes, there's a ton of stuff out there for v4, still leaving me to go to Poserworld for something I think I want to use, or search sharecg to see what's there that's decent.  Ten thousand pieces of clothing and 9999 of them not what I want, that means there's one that's available.  IT also means I'm going to go where I know I can find something suitable, not spend hour after wasted hour searching through the rest that I don't want.

The snarling, howling hate filled witch with a warhammer in each hand, for those that like such things, fine.  But there are more than a couple that have said the same as I just did.  For us, the support for v4 isn't there either.  SOmehow I get the feeling that a lot of people would rather poison any attempt at any new figure, no matter how good or versatile, before it can even get off the ground.  Let's wait until we see the figure and have a play with it before we're saying it's not better.  It probably will be, much better.

I've already dropped vicky out of my  runtime and I'm using Roxie.  I don't have to depend on someone else to give me a different face, I can get what I want without them.  Mike ain't there anymore either, and neither of them will be coming back.

Doric.

And my point was, "Do you really believe Steven and Chris are so ignorant they don't know what has to be in place and be doing everything they can to see that it is?"

Doric.

Quote -  

I think you are very right from a business point of view. DAZ manouvering smacks of something burning under their feet to hit a big one, or else. They havent hit a big one since V4, and thats a long time. Content sales frm her are no longer sufficient to support the store AND software development. 

My take is that daz has been overextended for a while and the investors ae looking for returns on the capital already, and getting tired of returns way below the projected. You know there have been investors, daz had press releases about it, not so much in poserdom, but elsewhere. Daz was piositioning themselves for serioys expansions, but none of them caught on beyond the aveage market percentage capture. (Dynamic clothing, gaming marketplace, bryce, cararra and hexagon, genesis... are the ones I cam recall off the top of my head)

:)

Warning-- long post, but I think that it addresses some real issues.

Here's the way that I look at it, and I think that it goes to the very heart of the title of this thread. I don't know enough to evaluate Gen 1 or 2 from an artistic/technical standpoint (I really respect those who do.) But let's look at the issues of characters and products like investors, because we ARE investing our time and money.Stick with me here... ;)

We have no way of knowing how well any of the Gen figures did in the marketplace (although I do think it's telling that the explosion of free content just hasn't happened, relative to V4.) This is because a private company does not release sales figures or finances to anyone-- not the SEC, not a government body, not the public, nobody. Now, private companies have to seek private investors, as BadKitteh noted above. They can't raise public capital by selling stock. The problem is that if anything goes wrong with raising capital in this way, it can be devastating. This type of company usually relies on a relatively very small group of people-- founders and others who are passionate about the products and the mission. If any of these people branch out and create competing products... and if we can infer the parent company's reaction from the fact that they're not allowing public discussion of that event... that does not usually mean good news for a private company. 

So whether or not Gen 2 is a dud from an artistic and content POV will need to be decided by others. V6 could be the greatest figure in all of history; the problem is the business decisions behind her. I can't justify "investing" in any of the Gen figures for that reason. If anything goes wrong with the parent company... aside from whether or not they can reorganize under Ch 11 or 13 (Chapter 7-- forget it!!), there would be a lot of fallout from the psychological effect of the debacle on users.

From that POV, although we don't have any idea how Dawn will work out, she's a much better bet right out of the gate. She is being created by people whom everyone in the know likes and respects. A lot of respected people are already jumping on board for content creation. She won't be platform dependent; aside from technical issues, that makes her more likable and more comforting after all of the negative feelings stirred up by DSON. Negativity between users of the two platforms could really be smoothed down.

Ultimately, no matter how much trolling may exist, most people need to feel like part of a community that is generating solutions.  Dawn is generating a lot of excitement in that area, and that feeling of purpose and  camaraderie is supported because of the time, place, and psychological space that she fits into. I also think she'll be very good. :)

So, on balance, I do think that V6 is a dud if we look at her as a potential investment of our time and energy, even leaving out any artistic considerations. I'd go with Dawn.

Quote -
I for one want the Daz users to know about this as they should be able to look at the market(the whole market) and make a choice before investing hard earned dollars. 

I hope to hell they do make the thing, and --more importantly-- that it takes off and is useful. Keeps everyone on their toes, and the winner is usually those of us who primarily consume stuff.

Certainly when it comes to apps I have my biases (D|S is --albeit in a very small way these days-- my baby, though it has many parents). On the other hand, when it comes to figures? I honestly don't care who makes the mesh - as long as I can make it do what I want it to, the results look good, and I can get/make stuff for it with little effort.

--

Quote - SmithMicro is on NASDAQ, and Daz is not, being a privately held company. Now, there are a lot of reasons why a company might not have gone public, but it means that they aren't required to release financial statements. I've been an investor for a long time (a small one...), and I am very leery of private companies.

One bit you may have missed - Poser has been passed around to quite a few companies (and at least 3 continents) over the years. How it survived the dot-bust I'll never guess.

"New Poser versions get more and more techy and less newbie friendly which has drawn newbies to DAZ Studio, while DAZ has gone more newbie friendly but isolationist which has screwed the 3rd party vendor market - the market that has kept this entire thing alive for all these years.

… because Poser and DAZ forgot what paid their rent all these years - not trying to emulate the top end apps, but focusing on EASE OF USE."

Amen to that. I think there are a lot of people (beyond the howling partisam mob here) who would agree. I think that both entities - for reasons that seemed perfectly rational to them - have lost the broad appeal they once enjoyed in their symbiotic relationship. I think that A few people running both enterprises became too enamored of their own vision of the future and now they're stuck leading a parade with a decreasing number of vocal followers. At this point, anyone who came out with modern, easy to use program that used existing content could wipe the floor with both of them. without Stephen Hawking field equations materials or Cirque du whatever bending etc. to boot. With apologies to Bubba, it's the point and click, make pretty pictures stupid. It may not be the 99%, but it's probably a lot closer than the holy warriors bitching up in here.

DO you really want to revert to the Poser 4 and 5 days?  OR maybe you like some of the features that make what was once impossible, maybe not easy, but possible.  Poser has evolved because it's what the customers want, not just to satisfy the programmers curiosity.  People wanted programs that were more capable, we have that, but along with capability comes complexity.  Necessary,  and not an evil thing.  Ease of use, just because Poser has the capabilities, doesn't rule out point and click, if that's all you want, it's all you need worry about.  Ease of use doesn't describe ds, confusion and chaos do.  Blender is easier to use.

Doric

I dunno...I can kind of see why both SM and DAZ might be leery of the point and click, make pretty pictures market. 

Even ten years ago, I knew people who used virtual reality games like The Sims to make images the way I used Poser.  It was lower-res, of course, and posing the figures required some tricks, but it was pretty easy compared to Poser. 

Games like The Sims 2 and Second Life allowed more control and much higher quality images.  It's probably good enough for a lot of people.  The customer base is huge.  And apparently there are people who make a lot of money (illegally) converting Poser content to Second Life and its ilk.  They sell textures, clothing, hairstyles, props, etc., generally for much less than Poser items, but to a much larger customer base. (Many people also do it the right way, of course, making original models.)

I could see SM and DAZ deciding they needed to differentiate themselves from that market by going higher-end.