Forum: Bryce


Subject: OT... Quest made me do it.

skiwillgee opened this issue on Jul 27, 2013 · 29 posts


Quest posted Fri, 02 August 2013 at 1:03 AM

“Counter point: So if I install surveilance cameras in my shop to catch shoplifters am I violating the Constitutional rights of lawful patrons?  Why aren't we demanding the removal of all cameras everywhere?”  

You can lawfully install as many cameras as you want in your shop as long as they are not in a reasonable expectant area of privacy without notice or permission like bathrooms, dressing rooms, hotel rooms and sometimes elevators. Each State has its own laws regarding surveillance cameras. But you cannot come into my home and surveil my privacy.

“Counter point: Am I to trust the opinions of two senators over the word of a General whose job is to protect American citizens especially when the the two senators continuously vote along party lines supporting an administration that is systematically taking away individual freedoms by executive orders.”

Yes…Senators are elected officials which can be voted in or out of office at the whim of the populace. They stand to lose their jobs if not done to the liking of the voters. Also Sensenbrenner the author of the Patriot Act is from the other side of the aisle.

Although General Alexander’s job may be to protect the country’s citizens he is answerable to the government not the people, it is also his livelihood and position of status amongst Capitol Hill officials. A position which he doesn’t want diminished or to lose and the agency he heads stands to lose federal funding if the surveillance programs are shut down.

“Point: "Sen. Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) said he hoped to sue the government over the collection of data, calling it “an outrageous abuse of power and a violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution.”

I like Rand Paul and think this country needs more like him. I would like to hear his solution to tracking down and identifying terrorist without monitoring.”

And;

"What I have yet to see is anyone come forward with a better way to protect our country, families and children.  If you have a viable alternative, submit it now." 

As far as Rand Paul; Yeah I like him too.

As to solutions…they’ve already been mentioned in my post. First from the CNN report;

“…but all of the plots that he (Gen. Alexander) mentioned appear to have been identified using other collection methods……a survey of court documents and media accounts of all the jihadist terrorist plots in the United States since 9/11 by the New America Foundation shows that traditional law enforcement methods have overwhelmingly played the most significant role in foiling terrorist attacks.

 This suggests that the NSA surveillance programs are wide-ranging fishing expeditions with little to show for them.”

So this mass surveillance is of no or little use and is only done for the sake of expedience. But in so doing, they are dredging up the records of innocent Americans and the terrorists could be monitored using standard collection means of investigation.

And in light of this I posted; “… in regards to the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (FAA) we need to bring the NSA to the point before the FISA law was diluted to encourage warrantless collection of data and constrain the FISA definition of “relative” so as not to be applied as broadly as to encapsulate innocent people.”