basicwiz opened this issue on Aug 09, 2013 · 265 posts
erogenesis posted Sun, 11 August 2013 at 8:25 AM
Ok so like everyone else I also downloaded Dawn when the site worked again. I checked her out relatively thoroughly. I feel a little better talking about Dawn now that I've actually seen her. I saw her in development and was skeptical, obviously. Hypes always make me skeptical.
Some of you might know me from other sites, and that my work is on the erotic side. Please don't be shy about it, or judge me about it. Sex is a pretty normal thing, not so? We all needed sex to be born at the end of the day. Haha. But anyway I felt I needed to voice my opinion because of what some people seem to expect from me (since I made lali's Bits for V4).
Ok so I loaded Dawn up. As far as standard 3D figures go, in my experience, eh... I don't know. Despite having been critical about it, I was expecting her to be marginally to moderately better than V4, rig and mesh wize, but I cannot really say that now. Granted, much is good, but there are some vital points that throw me off completely. In my most humblest opinion, based on my brief experience as a morph / figure / 3D developer:
Pros:
Cons (in order of seriousness):
Cons (that can be morphed away I suppose):
Ok shoulders, a matter of taste? Maybe. What I like about V4 is that she's skinny and generic. In my experience with Lali's Bits, this is useful for adding fat to it, it works better with the rig than to remove volume from it. With Dawn the first thing I'd do is remove those aircraft-carrier type shoulders and arms, but that will not look pretty with morphing in my experience. Spaces will emerge where you'd expect fat rolls. Dawn is already very defined, too defined to be flexible. This will cause issues, unless the scaling can solve then, but I'd have to research that properly.
Now the biggest problem is the thigh pivot location IMO. As I bent the thigh for the first time I seriously said 'wow, what the hell...?' I immediately noticed that something was way off. The leg seemed to get shorter as it bent upwards. I used the joint editor to check the pivot location and yes, it is almost down to the level of the pubic bone. Why? I think they did that to minimize the shearing in that area, which is good for the perves amongst us, but what a lousy way to solve it. Animating will look very weird. Maybe some of you won't notice it, but I work with this every week almost, and it doesn't feel right. In any case, the idea of ignoring anatomical correctness doesn't make me feel comfortable.
And off course the crotch. Not even a hint of genitals. No hope for detailed sex with dawn, even if I lodge a prop in there, you'd still have to subdivide her once or twice to get some decent things going.
Ok I know there are several artists out there that don't care for genitalia, that's fine, but there are also a whole bunch that do want them. Genitals are a very intricate thing, wasn't it Larry Flint that said that a vagina has just as much personality as a face? Ok that might be a little over the top, but sheesh, we all have to admit at one point that its a pretty complex thing to model, and there are many different types and shapes of vulvas out there.
When I make a comic with Lali, part of the focus is the sex, and how much she enjoys it. Her face shows it all, and expressions are so paramount in conveying this. But at the same time her body twists and gets squeezed, in all her female plumpness and biology, and between her legs thing swell up and get excited. Poetry has been written about what happens there! Kingdoms have gone to war over sex. Religious rites have been designed around the act. Books have been written about it. Women have spoken up about it and started entire movements!!
Why the bloody hell do we still fiddle around with clunky props? Why must the passionate artists amongst us have to lag behind the shyness that seems to have prevailed despite the revolutions our society has achieved? Sure, we don't all need a vagina in our art, but simply erasing the one thing that we're all born out of is, in a way, extremely disrespectful! There's not even a HINT of genital on Dawn.
But then there's her smile! It is downright ridiculous! There isn't even a crease that goes up to her nostril. I don't know of people that don't have that in a full smile.
Maybe I might be moping here but I find it inexcusable that experienced developers fail to make a proper smile for something that has been so thoroughly marketed. Why do these guys always fail at these simple things?
In conclusion: ok, Dawn is not a failure, but that's about it IMO. She's just another 3D figure that needs a ton of fixes and adjustments. Nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that we already have one: V4. Fixed, sorted, supported. So why repeat history with a figure that's not really different? Do we really have to go through all that crap for one extra bone in the spine?
So I think it will speak for itself that I will not bother with Dawn again. Because IMO Dawn is not better than V4, especially not with all the fixes available for V4... and definitely not better than my customized V4, the Lali System. There is no point in migrating to Dawn, IMO, unless I'd be emotionally bored of V4 or something. Even Genesis would be a more sensible move, if it weren't for the DAZ-limiting technology behind it. Sure, I can wait and build her up towards something better, but I'm happy with the Lali System and it can do just about anything I want from it. My own 3D figure 'Project E' will hopefully be even more so. There's no point for me to redo everything from scratch for a new figure if my V4 works just fine for now. I was expecting much more from Dawn to be honest.
For the record, I don't wanna come across as just bashing Dawn or DAZ because of unwillingness to change. If I am to change, then I'll do it properly. Its just that I've been asked to do bits for Dawn (and Genesis) several times and feel the need to explain why I'm not going to do it, I almost feel bad because of it, especially to the people that have invested money and time in me with Lali's Bits. I get very tired at the thought of lagging behind DAZ's (and now Hivewire's) sexless creations every time they come out with one, no matter how well they've been designed. So I'd rather make my own figure and kill a few birds with one stone for myself (and maybe the 3DX community if I do it right).
But anyway I've got an extra background figure for free. I'm kind of relieved with my findings, because it was bugging me a bit more that I wanted to admit. So anyway, thanks Hivewire, but now I'm definitely off to continue Project E with a bit more confidence now... (now just watch me screw something up hahaha)
"The fool is not the one that does something foolish, but the one that does nothing at all."