Quote - (Except for the very few posts at the top) What does this entire page have to do with the OP's question? Can we please drop all of this escoteric noise?

Wiz, I think it's reasonable to suggest that after 14 pages the OP's question has been answered, and the only contributors who remain are the ones interested in the new direction the discussion is taking. I think that's a perfectly natural thing, it happens in real life conversations too.

Quote - This subject has been beaten to death in countless threads before, and it almost always ends badly.

I would say that 95% of the topics discussed here have been beaten to death in countless threads before, and many have ended badly, but if we were to avoid or outlaw discussion of all those old or potentially-contentious topics we'd be left with a few OT threads and a few 'What hair is this' threads and not much else. Perhaps the main purpose of forums is to revive old subjects and then beat them to death again in new threads?

Quote - Umm, apologies for my part? I know my rambling disquisitions must irritate some people and I'm forever gateful for their forbearance - one of the things I like abouy this place.

@lmckenzie

Don't you go anywhere. Your posts are among the things I like most about this place, I mean that sincerely. I'm always pleased to see that you have added your thoughts to a thread, your participation makes this a better forum.