I wasn't going to post in this thread, but the temptation has grown beyond my ability to resist. I'm not going to knock anyone because the concept behind this guild is perfectly sound. A group of known, achieving, established artists testing files prior to sale or free publishing. Brilliant idea. The idea of reviewing products as introduced by Eric I thought was exceptional. An independant non reliant group of people who take an item test the heck out of it and review it. I like that idea a lot and over time the reviews would grow large enough that it would be possible to make an informed judgement on what's purchased based on those reviews. What I don't understand, and please excuse me for my stupidity here is what are the guild offering that isn't already in place? Let me elucidate. The guild will help and publish "tricks of the trade" "secrets of the creators" - in other words, those successful and popular vendors will tell everyone exactly how they do something so that everyone can do better. WIP, Tips and Tricks, Tutorials (all currently existant on Renderosity and 3D Commune, PFO and I believe on Renderotica) There's also the addition of Poser 101 and Bryce 101 (beginners forums) at 3D Commune and the Art School at 3D Commune. There's the Poser forums here, and on all the other sites, 3D modelling forums etc etc. So my question is. Why form a guild to offer services that are already in place rather than using those existing services to achieve exactly what this guild is going to do? Now, my next question. Freestuff. Is it fair to judge that on quality? A LARGE amount of freestuff is from people who are new to the communities. These people are learning and are eager, nay, extremely enthusiastic about sharing what they do. I personally know people that get a HUGE kick out of sharing their stuff and seeing it used in an image, I know I certainly do (though my stuff is gone for now thanks to my site getting shut down). Helping freestuff loaders to learn to make better things is easy. Use the existing infrastructure put in place by 4 online communities to do this. Helping them make better stuff can be done in the aforementioned forums, why "judge" them? Am I misreading that? I have a problem with making a better version of a crap store item and putting it into freestuff. No, really I do. That's nasty. It is. Someone made something to sell, "someone" let it into the store and now someone else is going to judge it and give away a better version? Ouch. Can anyone else see the vitriol and rows that are inherent in this? I do NOT have a problem with a bunch of artists, especially skilled artists who are willing to share knowledge and that skill to help people make better products. That is probably the single most shining example of generosity around. But it's already in place. Why haven't these leading examples of wonderment, these people desperate to share their knowledge and their skill already done so? PhilC is making a cd of his knowledge and including a bunch of in progress files. Steve Shanks is committing what he knows about making clothes to record for others to use. Brycetech has made a huge effort and now there's a new project Posertech in order to address a whole bunch of ideas, problems, tutorials and other stuff to help people. Kozaburo shares his knowledge freely and without complaint. The infrastructure is already here. Why not use it? Why create a "new" guild to do that? I don't get it. Now. What are the ramifications of a guild of artists, a group of "elite" artists testing stuff. None. It would be a great bonus to an item, free or store, to know that it's been approved by the likes of Traveller, Jaager, Steve Shanks, PhilC, Anton etc etc etc. I know I'd be chuffed to bits if one of them turned round and said "Hey I like that file Quest, well done." I'd be proud enough to bust. A seal of approval for goods. Yep, like that too. It means that a group of people we all know for quality goods have looked at that file and said "Yes, that meets the standard we would set for ourselves." A good point of reference I think for purchasing quality items. I like that. But. I can speak for the 3DCommune because I sometimes test goods for them, and I'm hard on them. I know the others are too. It's not a matter of "does it work", it's "Does it work well, does it look good", and a whole bunch of other stuff. There's no favouritism there. For example I recently rejected an item from someone there who I hold in the highest regard because of something I thought would cause a problem. Friendship, respect, doesn't enter into it. Money is at stake, as is the satisfaction of a customer. And that's paramount - especially seeing as I might be that customer. I don't see that the guild is offering much in the way that is different from that. Don't get me wrong here. I approve of the idea of artists gathering to help others achieve the standards they have achieved. I don't understand why the existing infrastructure can't be used. Mehndi, please understand I'm not attacking your idea at all. It's a damned good one. Perhaps as Eric suggested, you focussed like a laser on your primary motivation - quality testing of items - and stayed with that until you were established it might be better than to explore what actually looks like another budding site war. Some of the things your talking about doing with this group of elite artists is here and on other sites already. Please, consider using those facilities to share your skills and knowledge rather than creating further rifts between forums. By all means, gather artists under a Guild banner and follow this dream of quality, it's a good one but it won't mean anything if this blows up into another rift or site war, it will just hurt the community more. There is so much that could be achieved and so many people that could be helped by people like you, Thorne and many other accomplished artists and modellers it would be a shame to see so much talent taken away from this and the other sites and circled around another series of wagons in another site in another set of forums when the existing ones aren't being used to their full potential. Go for the quality control. Let other vendors and artists know that there are respected artists in the guild who will be testing the files. By all means produce a guild "stamp of approval" and discuss this with the existing stores and sites - I'm sure that some of them at least would be willing to listen to you on that subject. But please, don't start tearing the forums apart again. Use them. If the vendors really want to share their "trade secrets" then do so in the existing places. Everyone would appreciate that far more than having yet "another" site in the community. Quality good, splitting of community into elitist sections bad. Did that make sense? I hope so.