Diane, We are probably saying the same thing about the twist of the wrist. But with Vic, it is necessary to use the hand Xrot to get the correct effect. It is just necessary to pull the end of the JP stick back to the elbow joint. Fortunately, now with the use of JNT pose files, I will never have to do it by hand again. Yes, the stock joint limits are ridiculous. There is even a twist allowed on finger joints. I have my own setup. And, as I have said before, I am now using JCJ for 4 joints. Being able to move the abdomen in one direction and the chest in the opposite, may work for a cat, but not humans. When I move the abdomen, the chest automatically duplicates the movement. The same for the neck-upneck-head. I find far too many poses with the thigh bent and the buttock at zero. And, as we see above, a shoulder bend up without the collar equalling it - looks like a RR crossing gate. If what you mean is that Dina is set up from the beginning more anatomically, what seems to be a fruitless educational effort is not even necessary. But I would expect that those used to posing stock P4 or Vic to be confused by what they cannot do with a more realistic model. You can get the same final pose, it just must be done a different way. I am not saying that this is not the correct way to set up the figure, but I am saying do not expect to be widely thanked for it; at least not at first.