"Interesting, so even though I have used Carrara since version 2, because I personally feel that C8.5 was a good deal, and I like using Genesis (both versions), you would then consider me a Dazzer? Hmmm, interesting point of view, but not one I agree with. But then, I also don't consider myself to be "Carraraest"  either if I have to be a Carrara/DAZ basher to be one". DustRider  

Dazzers, as in DAZ cheerleaders that seem to spend most of their time trying to convince people DAZ can do no wrong. Some one comes on to the forum with a valid issue and practically the next post is to tell them how wrong they are. That is if the post isn't pulled out right.

"Actually, I'm just a guy that enjoys 3D, and Carrara is just one of the tools in my tool set, but Carrara is my favorite 3D tool. I do however understand that it can't do everything I would like it to do, and probably never will, so I have to use other tools in creative ways to do what I want. I would love for Carrara to have all of the features of C4D Studio, Vue infinite, and DAZ/Poser content compatibility, at the price DAZ currently asks for it! But, having been it the Technology/IT industry for almost 30 years now, I know that simply is not possible. I can’t afford $5,000+ for C4d Studio with InterposerPro, Vue Infinite, and the annual maintenance of it all (which is more than buying a full new license of Carrara Pro every year), so I'm quite happy that there is a great all round 3D app that uses DAZ/Poser content and is affordable for me". DustRider  

Agree. But how many times has DAZ broken a feature in carrara then left it that way? When you ask DAZ when they are going to fix dynamic hair so it doesn't react to objects in the scene DAZ will tell you to remove the objects, how is that a fix to dynamic hair? I'm not upset that carrara doesn't have all the features the big apps have, I'm upset by DAZ halfassed development of carrara; as in braking feature then leaving them broke.

"At least the Dazzers over in the DAZ Carrara forum are actively trying to show/use the tools found in Carrara". DustRider

When they actually work.

"First, if I had never used Carrara, and read all the posts in this forum, I'd never give it a second look. If I read the posts in the DAZ Carrara forum, then I definitely would investigate further."  DustRider

You mean the fascisly moderated DAZ forums which truly only presents one side, DAZ's. So when the new user starts using carrara then starts getting slapped in the face with issues they never read about on the DAZ forum they can think "what am I doing wrong".

"IMHO the only way they would sell Carrara is to sell the whole company". DustRider

Hopefully. My big issues with DAZ started when DAZ really wasn't DAZ any more. The new people running DAZ are what is ruining DAZ.

"Instead of bashing the "Dazzers", you should be thanking them for showing that it is possible to do some great things with Carrara, and generating renewed interest in it. This might actually boost sales to where we actually will see a C9." DustRider

What would boost the sales for carrara would be DAZ sticking to what they had been telling us for 2 years, C8.5 would be a nominal fee. $285 in by absolutely no definition, nominal. So basically DAZ lied to us for 2 years and we are some how now supposed to believe anything they say? More over DAZ also promised us we wouldn't have to have CMS to use DAZ content in carrara, then at release they made it mandatory if you wanted to use autofit, so yet again we were lied to.

"The only other app that does good landscape work with integrated plant generation is Vue," DustRider

Who's atmospherics lay carrara's to waist because DAZ hasn't done anything to improve it since they bought carrara. It is always at the top of my requested features list.

"As I note above, I like using Genesis, it very impressive technology, and IMHO it's great to have it available in Carrara. I was prepared to pay between $100-$200 for the upgrade (at discounted introductory/PC pricing), so to get it for under $80 (with my monthly PC coupon), I'm really happy with the C8.5 upgrade". DustRider

Which is free in studio plus the tools to work with genesis that carrara doesn't have. And one more time FREE IN STUDIO. So if I want to really do something to Genesis I have to do it in Studio because carrara is incapable. As I said if C8.5 had had the triax tools that are in Studio, and genesis/autofit had worked as well, yes it would have been worth the asking price. As is? No.

"I've seen so many post in this forum lately about how horrible Carrara is, how DAZ has completely borked it, how expensive the upgrade is, and how Carrara should have all the features of Maya, C4D, etc. - while keeping it at the current price or less". DustRider

Those point shouldn't be lumped together.
No, carrara isn't horrible. I love it and use it practically daily and some time all day.
Yes DAZ has borked it as much as it has advanced it. Every time DAZ adds something new they brake something old then never fix it.
Yes considering DAZ had told us for two years the upgrade would be a nominal fee then release it at $285, it is leaps more expensive then anticipated.
I don't want carrara to have all the big boy features. I want the feature that are there fixed and working as they should. The only really new feature I request regular; and have been requesting since C5 is dynamic clothes.

"Do I think DAZ is perfect? Not hardly, they have a history of shooting themselves in the foot more than any other company I know. But, the general negativity in this forum is not helping to move Carrara forward". DustRider

Agree. But if you look 99% of my negativity is directed at DAZ, and DAZ's handling of carrara, not carrara.

"If you want features in Carrara that aren't there now, or certain bugs put on priority to be fixed, you need to present your argument in a professional manner building a case that will make business sense for DAZ within the context of their business model". DustRider

If that worked we wouldn't be here now ;) I stopped filing bug reports because it was a waste of my time. I've been requesting that the shadier list stop the rollback since C5, shadier list still roles back to the top every time, and I can't believe it would be that difficult to stop it.

"If you like Carrara, then maybe it would be good to start having a real dialogue about it's strengths and weaknesses." DustRider

Done that repeatedly. Seems those sort of threads are like chewing gum, tasts good but doesn't fill your belly.

"Show examples of both, and workarounds for the things that need them". DustRider

That is the last thing you want to do on the DAZ forum. Once you post a work around for an issue DAZ will never fix it. Why fix it, there is a work around.

"OK, running back into the shadows and lurk mode before I get totally torched by the flames". DustRider

Please don't, I like arguing with people that don't get all personal and bent out of shape.

"Absolutely nothing is more annoying or easier to ingnor than constant complains from people who give absolutely no thought to what it takes to create, support and integrate...anything In any 3D app". ldgilman

I know you aren't talking to me.

"And the biggest complainers were the ones who didn't know a damn thing about the App they wanted to use and refused to pay for training (I don't work for free)". ldgilman

Still not talking to me and I am the biggest complainer.:D

""Dead Figure" That is so funny that it's not funny". Dartagnon  

No it isn't at all funny. DAZ released genesis over 2 years ago and never did another thing with the figure. It is out of development. With on 3 months we had all the morphs for the mil4/3 figures and genesis was done. By dead I mean the figure it's self is no longer in and hasn't had any development since.

"DAZ 3D has developed an amazing figure. A real treat. They improve upon it and decide to release Genesis 2 in both Male and Female versions". Dartagnon

Oh come on, you know as well as I do DAZ isn't responsible for G2F or G2M. Not at all sure why you want to give them the credit. Doesn't that slight the PA that actually did the work?

"The original Genesis has some heavy-hitter DAZ people shapes, monsters galore, and a pletora of other great addons, shapes, and textures. This is going to continue". Dartagnon

Lets see some links to any of that that has come out in the last 2 years. PA items don't count, we are just talking DAZ developments. Just because PAs still support genesis doesn't mean DAZ is still developing it. PAs still make clothes for mil4 figure, and I have seen new items for mil3 figures. Are you going to say DAZ is still developing them?  

"They sure seem to be doing the right thing to those of us whom create for them" Dartagnon.

Well dah, how are they going to make a profit if not off the backs of the PAs?

"More and more people are buying Carrara". Dartagnon.

Ahh, no. Lets step in to the way back machine and look at the forum after the release of C8. It was full of new users asking questions and old users asking about new features. Jump forward to the release of C8.5, it took what days for people to realize autofit doesn't work with out CMS running. If it had been the same as the C8 release people would have known this in a matter of minutes. I'd be whiling to bet C8.5 was the biggest flop since carrara was first released. And the problem wasn't carrara.

"I really love Carrara for what it already has - but I know already that I'll just continue to upgrade. I know DAZ 3D, and they make me feel good! I am a Dazzer!" Dartagnon
Oh ya, you are. Whether that is a good thing or not is debatable.

If something is free is has no $ value. Genesis compatibility and autofit are free in Studio, yet we are expected to pay for it in carrara. Why? We have already established it has no $ value. That said .5 update at $285 when a full upgrade was only $200, makes DAZ's asking price for C8.5 highway robbery. $285 for some feature tweaks and light icons? I think not.

Genesis compatibility and autofit are in carrara for no other reason then to sell us content, I am not paying for the privilege of buying content. Simple as that. If C8.5 had come out at the promised for 2 years nominal fee we would all be on the DAZ forum having as much fun as we did after C6, C7, and C8. As in, we wouldn't be here now.

DustRider  you see all this negativity here because DAZ would delete it from the DAZ forum. Fact or truth has nothing to do with it. As in I got banned for pointing out facts. It's like fascism, what do you call a truthful report for a fascist newspaper? Inmate 5487563876573467.