Wow, don't know that I can effectively respond to all this :blink: 

I'll start with some of the easy ones, and slowly work through it (still having fun with Octane).

ManleyStanley said: "If something is free is has no $ value. Genesis compatibility and autofit are free in Studio, yet we are expected to pay for it in carrara. Why? We have already established it has no $ value. That said .5 update at $285 when a full upgrade was only $200, makes DAZ's asking price for C8.5 highway robbery. $285 for some feature tweaks and light icons? I think not. "

IMHO, extrapolating that integrating Genesis into Carrara provides no value for Carrara users and should be integrated for free simply because you can use Genesis for free in DS is a bit od a stretch. The practice of providing a program with a given level of functionality for free, than charging for a program with similar base functionality and additional more advanced features is quite common. For example, you can get Avast anti virus software for free, but if you want the additional internet security features you will need to pay for them. True - this isn't exactly the same thing, but this is a common practice.

What would have been the response of Carrara & Content users if DAZ hadn't integrated Genesis into Carrara. It would have been ugly - very ugly. I can attest to my own experience - DAZ didn't hold a gun to my head and make me purchase the upgrade. I did so of my own free will because it had features that I wanted. If it didn't, I wouldn't have upgraded. If I decided not to upgrade, I would understand that it was MY decision, and would not have gripped about it for the next few months/years. I would have evaluated my options, made a decision, and moved forward either with moving to a different software, or being content with hat I had.

If having Genesis support in Carrara is of no value to you, I say then why upgrade, unless you want to support the continued development of Carrara? DAZ is a business, you get the opportunity to make the decision, and vote with your $$$.

The Carrara 8.5 upgrade at $285 ???? Seriously??? Common Stan, you know that's only the price for people who have never shopped at DAZ and don't know how things work there.  $85.50 (PC Price) + ~$25.00 (quarterly PC membership if you aren’t a current PC member) = $110.50 for owners of C8 (you do have to go all the way into your cart to see the $85.50 price though). I realize that by using the $285.00 price help's to support your view of injustice and overpricing, but for those who know better, it only makes you look bad.

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ManleyStanley said:  "DustRider  you see all this negativity here because DAZ would delete it from the DAZ forum. Fact or truth has nothing to do with it. As in I got banned for pointing out facts. It's like fascism, what do you call a truthful report for a fascist newspaper? Inmate 5487563876573467."***

Seriously?? Fascism??? The last time I checked, DAZ3D is a business, not a government, dictatorship, or any form of sociopolitical regime that controls a given/defined area of land and the people who are within the borders of the afore mentioned area of land. Why is it so difficult to understand that DAZ pays the bills for their forums, and they have the right to control their forums in a many they see fit. Freedom of speech is not a right on private forums on the internet. You either abide by the rules, or you aren’t welcome there.

I say the following only in hopes that maybe it will help in some way. I mean no malice, and only hope that you will see some value in what follows. I knew before you got banned form DAZ that is was going to happen, and honestly, I'm surprised they put up with your behavior as long as they did. It's sad, because you have some great talents and a lot of knowledge that you could (and often do/did) share with the community. But instead you decide to go on your own personal crusade, to almost irrational levels. If you take a good, objective, and honest look at it, you will realize that the only person you have to blame for getting banned from DAZ is yourself. You refused to follow the rules, and as a result you got "invited" to leave.

ManleyStanley said:  "If that worked we wouldn't be here now ;) I stopped filing bug reports because it was a waste of my time. I've been requesting that the shadier list stop the rollback since C5, shadier list still roles back to the top every time, and I can't believe it would be that difficult to stop it. "

I tend to agree here ... to a point. I don't have any insights on this beyond my own programming and IT experience. But, it is very possible that this seemingly simple modification is not as simple as it would seem to the user. I don't have any idea how the underlying code for Carrara is structured, other than the obvious things that any user could surmise (i.e. if I perform this modification in module x - then the values are passed to module y), and I seriously doubt anyone on this forum does either. It is very possible that changing that seemingly simple and really disliked behavior is truly a large undertaking that would require numerous modifications to the underlying code for both the UI and how the UI passes information back to the materials program.

Here is where the programmers and product development managers have to make a difficult judgment call that makes perfect sense to them, but is not popular with the user base. The dialogue would go something like this:

Question 1 - Does this problem cause the program to crash, create unexpected results, or dose the core program still function as intended (i.e. you enter/change a value - does it work)?

    Answer - Yes it does still work properly, but it is an inconvenience and very annoying for the user.

Question 2 - How long will it take to fix this behavior?

   Answer -  ?????? (no one on this forum has a clue - lets just guess at 3 days)

Question 3 - Does this problem make it impossible for the user to work with the program?

  Answer - No it doesn't, but when the users are editing complex materials like we have on V4, it is extremely annoying and inconvenient.

Question 4 - Is this a big enough issue that it would be a good bullet point to attract current users to upgrade, and entice new users to purchase?

  Answer - Many current users would love it, but it seems like they are more interested in features x,y,and z. Prospective users wouldn't have a clue what we were talking about.

Decision - Let's put this feature on the top of the list of annoying issues that make the user go crazy. We will work on features in this list after we have completed the new features for version XXX, and addressed all the new/old bugs that make any features or the program unusable. Hopefully we will have time to fix all of the features on the annoying list prior to the release of the new version.

Of course, this list may never get addressed because 99% of the time, the new features take longer and cost more than expected, so the annoying but usable problems list seldom receives any real attention.

Yes, to us, the users, this seems like a very callous and .... well .... stupid way to do business, because it isn't improving the software that way it should be improved (at least to us). But on the other side, they only have a given amount of $$$$ to work with, and have to try to maximize the return on their investment. Of course, not addressing the usability issues can be a big negative over time. It's a very difficult balancing act when your dealing with limited resources, because there are always users who are unhappy with your decisions.

 

@dr_bernie - Sorry if I was wrong about the time that was speculated on the inclusion of Embree into Carrara. Bottom line though on any new features, or featurettes, we, as users really have no clue as to how difficult or easy it is add things to Carrara. I do know from my own real life experience that working with someone else’s code, especially code that has been through several different owners, and is a compilation of two programs is no simple task.

My comments in this area reflect my own increased sensitivity to people without a clue who think programmers and IT staff can easily do things that actually are quite difficult. So if I was a bit over the top, I apologize.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled DAZ3D and "Dazzer" bashing party.....

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