"IMHO, extrapolating that integrating Genesis into Carrara provides no value for Carrara users and should be integrated for free simply because you can use Genesis for free in DS is a bit od a stretch. The practice of providing a program with a given level of functionality for free, than charging for a program with similar base functionality and additional more advanced features is quite common. For example, you can get Avast anti virus software for free, but if you want the additional internet security features you will need to pay for them. True - this isn't exactly the same thing, but this is a common practice." DustRider

Oh I'll give you that it's a bit of a stratch. But I don't think it gives carrara the value DAZ put on it; especially in it's preset state. More over I refuse to install CMS so I wouldn't be able to use genesi/autofit; which was unnessary through out the beta.

"What would have been the response of Carrara & Content users if DAZ hadn't integrated Genesis into Carrara. It would have been ugly - very ugly. I can attest to my own experience - DAZ didn't hold a gun to my head and make me purchase the upgrade. I did so of my own free will because it had features that I wanted. If it didn't, I wouldn't have upgraded. If I decided not to upgrade, I would understand that it was MY decision, and would not have gripped about it for the next few months/years. I would have evaluated my options, made a decision, and moved forward either with moving to a different software, or being content with hat I had."

Actually the responce to genesis not being carrara compatable was, well not much ;)
Yes, your desion was to buy, if I had thought the price was reasonable I would have too. But I used the beta for 2 years, it wasn't worth what DAZ is asking for it to me; and that was before they made CMS mandatory. And it is just my nature to stay at an issue till it isn't. Problems don't get solved by pointing them out, then walking away.
And if CMS is still manditory in C9, I guess; regarless of how much I love it, I wont be upgrading carrara at all. DAZ is not going to stick a gun to my head and force me to use CMS to use genesis/autofit, it was unnessary in the beta it shouldn't be nessary now.

"The Carrara 8.5 upgrade at $285 ???? Seriously??? Common Stan, you know that's only the price for people who have never shopped at DAZ and don't know how things work there.  $85.50 (PC Price) + ~$25.00 (quarterly PC membership if you aren’t a current PC member) = $110.50 for owners of C8 (you do have to go all the way into your cart to see the $85.50 price though). I realize that by using the $285.00 price help's to support your view of injustice and overpricing, but for those who know better, it only makes you look bad." DustRider

Sorry, but the discounts are nothing but smoke and mirrors in my opinion. None the less $110 is still way over priced as far as I'm concerned. My price point is $50, that is all C8.5 is worth in my book. Now when C9 comes out and CMS is unnessary, and DAZ doesn't play some "you didn't get C8.5 so C9 is full price" game. I'll upgrade to C9; dependent on new features, if DAZ offers it at the price I value it at. If it is just C8.5 with a bit more guilding......

"Seriously?? Fascism??? The last time I checked, DAZ3D is a business, not a government, dictatorship, or any form of sociopolitical regime that controls a given/defined area of land and the people who are within the borders of the afore mentioned area of land. Why is it so difficult to understand that DAZ pays the bills for their forums, and they have the right to control their forums in a many they see fit. Freedom of speech is not a right on private forums on the internet. You either abide by the rules, or you aren’t welcome there." DustRider

Oh I never said DAZ doesn't have the right to do what they do. But the DAZ forum just shows people a single side, DAZ's. So if you have a gripe you have to do it else where. All that accomplishes is concentrating all the bad DAZ sentament in to one place where DAZ has no control. So of coarse that other site is going to look like a snake pit. This is like the golog for DAZ nay sayers.

Hey, some one has to counter balance a certain persons head in the clouds optimisiam, so I get a bit extreme too ;)

"I say the following only in hopes that maybe it will help in some way. I mean no malice, and only hope that you will see some value in what follows. I knew before you got banned form DAZ that is was going to happen, and honestly, I'm surprised they put up with your behavior as long as they did. It's sad, because you have some great talents and a lot of knowledge that you could (and often do/did) share with the community. But instead you decide to go on your own personal crusade, to almost irrational levels. If you take a good, objective, and honest look at it, you will realize that the only person you have to blame for getting banned from DAZ is yourself. You refused to follow the rules, and as a result you got "invited" to leave". DustRider

Yes, and isn't funny how those rules cover pointing out facts. I got banned for pointing out the fact that DAZ is not developing genesis. The DAZ forum is a commercial site, you can't say any facts that might curtail sales. For DAZ it's much easier to ban some one then actually do something about an issue, especially if it has something to do with anything DAZ is trying to sweep under the carpet.

True incident. When Dawn was released on Hivewire {where pretty much all the old DAZ crew is} the download demend was enough to crash the server several time. Some one had posted about it on the DAZ forum so I jokingly posted the lip bizzkets "sabatoge" video. It was a joke, nothing but a joke. A certain other forum poster had made a comment about the cast in the video, I responded. The mods pulled all of it, it violated absolutly no rules. And I was threatened with banning then. I will reiterate, I violated no rules with the posts.
I'll also point out I had a watch dog on the DAZ forum, I had posts pulled for little to no reason with in minutes of posting. Like some one had some radar and knew the second I posted. Yes, one of the DAZ forum mods had it in for me; in my opinion. So I was going to end up banned regarless.

"I tend to agree here ... to a point. I don't have any insights on this beyond my own programming and IT experience. But, it is very possible that this seemingly simple modification is not as simple as it would seem to the user. I don't have any idea how the underlying code for Carrara is structured, other than the obvious things that any user could surmise (i.e. if I perform this modification in module x - then the values are passed to module y), and I seriously doubt anyone on this forum does either. It is very possible that changing that seemingly simple and really disliked behavior is truly a large undertaking that would require numerous modifications to the underlying code for both the UI and how the UI passes information back to the materials program". DustRider

Oh I'll give you that. But would it kill a DAZ rep to say as much?

" Answer - No it doesn't, but when the users are editing complex materials like we have on V4, it is extremely annoying and inconvenient". DustRider

Oh I wish some of the models I worked with had as few a shaders as V4 ;) lol

"My comments in this area reflect my own increased sensitivity to people without a clue who think programmers and IT staff can easily do things that actually are quite difficult. So if I was a bit over the top, I apologize".

I spent 3 years converting papyrus race tracks from various papyrus car racing games to GP500; motocycle racing games. I know all about "well it should be easy" lol

"Anyone following your conspiracy theories about the company should really understand the major flaw in your design, which uses the model where DAZ 3D actually has control over what everybody buys, and when they do it. That's simply not at all how it works". Dartagnon

But DAZ does. DAZ controls it all with pricing, sales, and advertising. DAZ stopped me from updating to C8.5 with the price. DAZ could just as easily sold it to me by pricing it right. DAZ had all the control there. I'd bet if DAZ had dropped the price $30 in your cart, they would have tripled the units sold. That would have tripled the number of people using genesis in carrara and as such boosted genesis items sales greatly. You; as a carrara PA, count have actually made more money. So DAZ overpricing the C8.5 update actually cost you money. Or didn't you realize that?

"Through talent, knowledge, open ears, and solid development". Dartagnon
I laughed so hard at that I almost wet myself. If DAZ had open ears and did some solid developing.. well... it's another case of we wouldn't be here now. :D

"I don't understand how you could possibly attract a following - especially here"!

Why on earth would I want a following? This isn't a popularity contest.

And you do realize those people with the "talent, knowledge, open ears" that made DAZ what it is, aren't there any more, right?

"Belittling DAZ 3D is belittling anyone whom supports them". Dartagnon

No, I'd never belittle a PA ;) . Because, after all it is the PA's that support DAZ. Think about it.