"Carrara 8.5 sold more copies than any other version to date".

I don't beleve that. Are you saying all those people that bought it knew how to use it, and needed no help? Because the number pf posts from people needing help was very, very few compared to the release of C8. I think DAZ is feeding you a line of BS. Now I certainly wont argue the it was the best selling .5 update for carrara. Certainly can't argue with that. ;)

"DAZ 3D pricing is very low". Dartagnon

Compared to what? 3DS max? C4D? Houdini? If you use them as a comparisen, my car was low priced too. My point, the one you are missing, is DAZ promesed us for years C8.5 would be a nominal fee, which it certainly isn't. $110 is not a nominal fee. Especailly considering the last full upgrade was only $200.

"You cannot buy Poser Pro for what you'll end up paying for Carrara. Well... not you, because you don't want it. And you really don't. Because Genesis is really cool. And it just won't work properly at the moment without cms. People who have never tried Carrara before are now joining in and seeing why we're such a happy bunch. Carrara is simple, it's powerful, and no matter what sort of 3d design you fancy, Carrara has tools to help you do it". Dartagnon

Why ever would I want poser pro? I want a real CG app, not a dolly staging app. If that is what I wanted I'd use Studio.
Funny with CMS genesis works no better then it did with out. It was completely unnessary and DAZ forced it on us because they couldn't get many of us carraraests to use it any other way. Simple as that. DAZ wants their DRM on your machine. Not going to be on mine.

Dartagnon I got banned simply because I spoke out agains DAZ, I told the truths as I saw them. You just can't do that on the DAZ forum. Now if I had just went at fellow forum posters I never would have gotten banned. And you know just what I mean. On the DAZ forum it is ok to attack your fellow posters it isn't ok to attack DAZ. Simple as that.
I never spoke out against carrara.

"And when you say that there's something wrong with us standing up for what and who we believe in, well then perhaps it's not us who are in the wrong place". Dartagnon

Supporting a company you love is one thing, blinding youself to actual issues and carrying like DAZ can do no wrong is quite another. As in fan is good, fanatic is bad.

I'll also point out we had a new DAZ_ with the release of C8.5. He was active till the questions got too poignant and he had no answers. He's gone now and I had nothing to do with that. That is what happens to DAZ carrara reps, they get painted in to a corner and have no answers or explantions so just quit. And as far as Spooky, him and I have had personal issues for a few years.

"All that is is propaganda and ...Who really puts up with that"? Dartagnon

My freinds when I am at thier house and the news is on. I mean really; off topic, news is just politically bias misinformation any more.
None the less your argument there is apples an pomaganets. DAZ isn't some ones private home, it's a busness entitiy.

"Because it marks the beginning of the Carrara 9 development cycle - that's why". Dartagnon

DAZ was working on C9 long before the release of C8.5, and said as much.

"Sorry for laying it out like that". Dartagnon

No need to be, I love these civil conversational debates.

"Balance is good". Dartagnon

Agree, too bad the DAZ forum isn't. It's all rainbows, puppy dogs, and unicorns with no gloom and doom to balence it.

"Sorry if you feel offended. And I'm sorry for you that you feel so upset about how things went for Carrara. Personally, if I was still using Carrara 6 or 7 Pro - or even 5 Pro... I'd still be praising it - because it did what I wanted it to back then! If you've had it since version 2 and you still don't like it... argh... I thought that I left! Forgot to uncheck the 'notify me' box". Dartagnon

No ofence taken at all. But I am not that person, as I said my issues aren't with carrara, I love carrara, DAZ is what I have issues with, and DAZ's handleing of carrara is my issue.

"Genesis has amazing value and it's only free because DAZ 3D allows it to be so". Dartagnon

Genesis is free to sell you content for genesis, it's a marketing stratagy, not DAZ being magnanimous. Most all the DAZ figures I have were free, or I got very cheaply. Chris Creek knows this stratagy works, why do you think the Dawn base was free? Give you the base figure for free and now you need to buy the morphs, skins, clothes ect. it's a marketing stagy that works, and works quite well. Don't try to build DAZ up as being some magnanimous, benevolent entity when they are simply useing a tried, true, and succeful marketing startagy.

"At a time when the whole country felt an enormous financial hit, and we would all have to put our 3d hobby endeavors on hold, DAZ 3D comes up with the incredibly cool idea of giving away three, beautiful software packages, a wealth of starter gear and, now I really like this one, starter instructions on how to build stuff for Genesis so that you can sell it. The instructions are incredibly simple, only because of the genius engineering they've put into their gorgeous DAZ Studio Pro. Over $200 (and worth it) software... and it's still free!" Dartagnon

DAZ has done this right along, it's not new nor does it have anything to do with the financial crisis. DAZ has include free content with carrara since they bought carrara.

Of corse DAZ is giving instruction on how to build content for sales, that is how they make their money, off the backs of their PAs. It's in thier best interest to have as many PAs as they possably can, it's certainly not for your benefit. Me giving you the tools to make something for me to sell benefits me, not you. You do the work, I make the profit.

Now I am not at all trying to belittle anyone's content, I'm not putting carrara PAs down, but aside from the plugins made by some real geniouses, carraraest can do anything a carrara PA can. You, Ringo, even Howie aren't doing anything any carraraest couldn't. It's simply a matter of understanding the tools and having the ambition to do it. Now for me, since I have been using carrara for years, the only carrara content I am interested in buying it Howies. And that is simply because I am too lazy to spend months setting up a scene.

I say that like I haven't spent months setting up this swamp scene, but then I used lisa's plants so not something I could, or would be inclined to sell. Yes I could spend another month replacing the plants with carrara made ones and have a marketable swamp scene. I may need the money, but I wouldn't be selling it at DAZ {not with it's new management}, I'd be selling it some place where I like and know the people, and suport the brokerage. As I have said, with the lackidazical way DAZ has been developing apps the last couple of years, it is little more then a brokerage house now. DAZ makes their money from the PAs they broker, not from the one app they actually sell.