dr_bernie wrote: "Look at this 3D app. It's called Project Messiah. It sells sometimes for as low as $299.- in its full-blown 64-bit pro version.

A couple of samples of work done with it:

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/vids/gallery/taron_pron_divx.avi

http://www.usefulslug.com/files/Xerxestest5.mov

You can see more samples in their video gallery.

Can the new technologies developed by Daz come even close to what the $299.- Project Messiah can do? So far I have not seen any animation done with Genesis or G2F to substantiate this claim.

Regardless, even if it's possible to create such animations with G2F, you still need a renderer capable of rendering the animation with a high degree of realism, otherwise all the work done on Genesis or G2F goes to waste."

 

This is actually a piece of software I own and have used. I bought it when it was on sale for around $60.00, as did several other Carrara, DS, and Poser users. It's an extremely impressive piece of kit .... for animating. Like EIAS, it's for animating only, that's one of the reasons it has such good support/integration with Modo, Lightwave, etc (plus it was created by ex-Newtek employees, as was Modo). The other reason for the great integration with other applications is that the render engine isn't as fast as some of the products that are used with it (about the same speed as Carrara).

What I, and many others who bought PM (Project Messiah) during their great sale found out is that it doesn't play well with Poser figures. For V4, M4, S4 etc. you can pretty much forget it. You need to weld the mesh, re-rig it, manually import all the morphs, and do the same with all the cloths, hair, etc. Also, V4 is simply to "heavy" to be used effectively use in PM. Genesis is a bit better story as far as performance, but you still have the problem of rebuilding most everything in PM. So for Poser/DAZ content users, it really isn't an option. For Carrara uses who don't use content (i.e. model their own characters), and want to upgrade their animation toolset, it's a great option (just don't expect faster rendering without an external rederer).

PM has the specific tools and scripting capabilities required for efficient animation. If you want fast rendering with PM, you'll need to either set up a small render farm (like many do with Carrara), or go to an external render engine. Of course you will also need to have additional support software for modeling your assets - Modo and Lightwave seem to be the two most popular companion packages.

For those who like to use Poser/DAZ content, our options are pretty limited. Genesis actually has the potential to open up some other venues for using DAZ content due to its lower poly count and use of subdivision surfaces. Unfortunately, Poser content is really designed for posing, not for animation. Meshes for animation are designed and rigged  much differently than Poser/DAZ content. They are also a lot more complicated than Poser figures (but simpler in many ways if that makes sense).

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dr_bernie wrote: "In other words you need to incorporate a technology like Embree into Carrara to fully bring-out the details of hi-def meshes, otherwise hi-def meshes are useless.

Embree would be a great technology to incorporate into Carrara, if possible at a reasonable cost. There is one large probable downside to this, especially for a company that caters to the hobby 3D market. Embree is an Intel tech, and may either not work, or work much less than optimally on AMD processors, which a lot of Carrara users have. Here is where Management at DAZ has to make another difficult decision - do they incorporate Embree, and by default endorse (the users would call it "force") the use of Intel processors, or not. Of course, Embree may work on AMD processors, I really don't know, I haven't been able to find any information on it.

However, I don’t have any problems bringing out the details of hirez meshed in Carrara, it’s just a matter of setting up proper lighting. As with any software, except for zBrush, 3D Coat, and maybe Modo, extremely hirez meshes will cause serious system/display slow down due to the amount of RAM required.

dr_bernie wrote: "And if anyone thinks that I will pay upwards of $500.- for an Octane renderer whose Carrara plugin will most likely never be developed beyond a 1.0.1 version, they're sadly mistaken."

That is of course your option, and you have a every right to your own opinion. However, if you want pro level tools, typically you have to pay pro level prices. The only real exception to this rule being Blender. Speaking of Blender - the licensing on Cycles (Blenders equivalent to Octane) just changed to Apache - which means that third party developers can now develop plugins for Cycles, or the software developers themselves can integrate cycles support in the products. So, it may be worth your time to contact SphericLabs and request a Cycles plugin similar to the Luxus plugin for Carrara.

I find it interesting that you are so dead set against purchasing a plugin to a professional render engine that will give you’re the speed you desire while requesting professional features in Carrara. Look at the professional packages like Maya, 3DS, Lightwave, C4D, etc., thee all have plugins or direct support for multiple external renderers. If you purchase Octane Render (the majority of the expense) and you have the option to purchase plugins to use it with Maya, 3DS Max, C4D, Lightwave, XSI, Rhino, Revit, Archicad, Poser, Inventor, Blender, and DS. Hardly a dead end purchase even if the Carrara plugin doesn't go past your guess of "1.0.1".

Many of the pro level tools that appear to be in the same price range as Carrara require that you purchase other software packages before you get to equivalent levels of functionality. True, by the time you do so, you'll typically far exceed the capabilities of Carrara, but you'll also far exceed the initial cost, upgrade pricing, and training requirements of Carrara.

I think that is where Carrara users experience so much frustration, Carrara is so close to being a true competitor to the big boys in so many ways, but falls a bit short in direct comparison. 

***Manleystanley wrote: “*But dude, really, you don't go at some ones art, that is just wrong. I feel it's every bit as bad as going at some ones mother. Now I may critique some ones art then follow up with suggestions on how to improve it, but you just don't go at someone's art like that."

Got to agree with Stan on this. Attacking someone at that level is simply uncalled for. This has been a very good discussion without any big pesonal attacks. Lets keep it that way. Besides, Dart does some really great work. It may not be what you like, but like any art form, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Giving a thoughtful critque of his art is perfectly fine - he he askes for it. But IMHO your comments were way over the top.

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