I think what EClark means is that Poser comes standard with cloth, hair and animation. For DS, it's plugins...and even with the DS cloth plugin you can't you use your own meshes unless you have the Optitex license. Personally I love being able to use my own meshes in the cloth room and it's sad that DS users don't have that. But they have other features they like just as much I guess :). For me it's all apples and oranges...whatever you need to use to get the job done is fine by me :P I did try to use Genesis in Poser and found it - lacking. Wasn't really much skin off my nose tho...I have tons to play with as is. LOL

Laurie