Heya Leggs Akimbo... I always did wonder that about Amish folks, why they will use technology so long as they are not owning it? Like running over to use the neighbhors phone instead of owning one ;) It was a very mysterious thing to me. Be that as it may, I have more respect for your faith despite it's mysteries to me, than you evidently have toward us. Let me address a few of your points. We all sell at Daz, and we sell damned well there :) We have old products here, and have not placed any new ones in a while, though if things could ever improve here as far as sales of new products, no doubt that would change. Since you mention referencing the 30 day list, it must mean your brother is one of the people who sells here. Is he feeling threatened by our Quality movement? Perhaps in fear that somehow this would cut him out of his own ability to sell? He should not be. We are not attempting to stop anyone from selling. We are working toward making an independent testing service as part of a guild geared toward high quality and education of how to achieve high quality. As to your oblique reference to intellectual theft, I havent a clue what you are referring to really, unless you have gone on rumours that are turned up on end and backwards. You see, I was not accused of intellectual theft of anyones product ever, but someone else was accused by members quite openly of intellectual theft of my product. I did not help to "prosecute" that person in public, in fact, when things were too far out of hand, I begged them for mercy for her, as a favour to me, if nothing else. So try to get your facts straight before you speak. Since you visit so infrequently I will forgive you this time ;) Again, get your facts straight. There are no discussions with Jack D Kammerer. Whether one likes or dislikes Jack is not my concern. When he comes into this thread and expresses good will towards people and the idea in general, but also expresses sorrow that he feels that he might not be let in, the only decent thing to do is reassure him fast that indeed, we would let him in. This is neutral ground, our guild. We would let all in who want to be there. He has not ever responded, but at least he knows now he is welcome :) Sometimes, that is all that matters. Our goals are not to start our own site selling our own things, and all that, at this time. Our goals are to start a small quality movement. Anyone who cares about quality is welcome to come learn from us, join us, be a part of it. Why is this so threatening? I haven't a clue. And lastly, we are not going anywhere...except standing right here, standing our ground, and asking artists to be cognizant of the quality they produce, work to produce better stuff, get involved with their work as a passion, not as a way to make 5 dollars extra. Bring to their work the same quality they would want in what they buy. Learn to do better work :) You have a nice day now :)