Jeff, In agreement with you...Yes, I have seen umpteem R rated films that show male frontal nudity....Sad part here is that Grey used movies as an example...In my personal opinion todays films do not relate in any way to art so the comparision,in my mind, should never be made...But it was....It might be influenced by it but I see no comparision to the art created here and the film industry....Todays films are filled with much worse than the human figure...Violence and crime come to mind here before nudity...I just wish Grey had choosen a different avenue to base his opinion on..but at the same time if that is the way they want to run their forum then fine...That is their decision...Nude figures are nude, obscenity becomes a completely different issue...There is a very fine line there depending on who you are dealing with.....Kennect