Diane, Well, as a longtime fan of Posette, I'd have to say that if I were designing from scratch and she came out looking like Possette I'd be pretty pleased with myself. But then as a would be sculptor who has designed women from scratch, I have to say that getting the torso the right shape, (and peversely enough, the feet :) are always the most difficult parts of the construction process. In fact that's one of the reasons why I like poser so much, it's easier and quicker than the month long labour of love that is building a figure from scratch. Hell it can take the better part of a week to build a decent armature :) But to answer the question, I would have to say that if I were building the perfect woman, then apart from changing the eye colour to green, I'd be happy if she looked like one of my old girlfriends, (a litteral "gift from God") but failing that I'll take SMV with smaller breasts and the face I have on her at the moment, (a happy accident :) although if she looked like Handspan's Brigit (The basis for the current face) I'd be just as happy... The point I was trying to make above was that unlike the arrival of Vicky, when "ugly or not" she was the most advanced thing on the market, now times have changed, expectations are higher, and even Daz took the hint and make V2 passably pretty. So it's perhaps a tribute to the programmers art, and the maturity of the audience, that mesh density alone is no longer enough. Even though, by her very nature, Dina is extensively morphable, out of the box she isn't pretty, and given that most people aren't morph masters the reaction she provoked is understandable, but only if people are thinking of her as a woman, and not an .obj :) which has to be good. Like most I'll probably wait untill somebody creates a "pretty" version, but when "perfection" is possible, why settle for less :) later jb