Oh yeah...Beck, only when I'm dinning, I break a pair of chopstick in dsperation and throw them like darts, than run for my dear of my live!...LOL! Muwahahahaha!!!...>;-D Yes, Bloodsong...you are dooooomed and booooomed!!! I'm in DAZ3d contest...three entries in all..Muwahahahaha! On the bright side :)...I bought your EXP and was hoping to get something done last minute, but Vue 4.02 is so unpredictable..has been giving so much ...nicely put..'surprises' or getting more funny. I have to resort back either to the first patch and one of them was done in Vue 3.1. Any buddy...best to all that participate. The ball is round and its anyone's game :) Bill