I read this post in another thread and rather than derail that thread, I thought I'd spin it off into it's own thread.

[quote]

Mariko is certainly different but not being weight mapped would appeal more to the Poser users that have stuck at an earlier versions.  The fact that she is Japanese would also be an issue for me as a base figure.  I have nothing against Japan or the Japanese and my car for many years has been a Honda that I love but I want my base figure to be a blank canvas.  Of course I want the ethnic morphs as well so that I can have all the ethnic variations but to have a base figure to have such stong ethnic features would, I think, be very limiting.

[/quote]

I have to say this, but I don't want to give the impression that I'm calling anyone racist or meaning to offend you, but just because the base figure is of a particular ethnic origin doesn't make it any harder to morph to another ethnic group. And just to point it out, a caucasian face is not a "blank slate".

So here's the follow up... Why isn't the 3D marketplace more racially diverse? You can see it in the promotional materials, the artwork, the products. Is it just because the marketplace reflects the population in it? Do we tend to project ourselves and thus our ethnicities onto our artwork? Are we just lazy and don't want to spend a lot of time changing the ethnicity of a character? After all the base figure is white, the result will probably be white. Which kind of brings us back to the point made about Mariko.

I don't see the term 'Caucasian' mentioned anywhere in the paragraph you quoted. What exactly is 'Caucasian' anyway? The term is often incorrectly applied to anyone that isn't immediately identifiable as African, Asian, or some other distinct race/nationality. 

Light beige or pink skin does not automatically make someone Caucasian, which isn't even a distinct race anymore.

And there are many non-Caucasian characters in the various stores.

In terms of base figures, there are at least 15 to 20 that I can think of right now that are clearly non-Caucasian. Why vendors choose not to develop for them is a question you would need to ask each of those vendors. 

A blank slate figure is not Caucasian, it's a blank slate. 

Quote - A blank slate figure is not Caucasian, it's a blank slate. 

True. The thing is most of those blank slates get released with a caucassian skin type so people automatically assume it's caucassian, even though in most cases the features are very neutral.

Not offended in the least, I was trying to pick my words carefully but still make a point but realised I could easily upset people. 

My abilities at modelling and morph creation is dire so I really need to buy other peoples work.  My point with Mariko is that the figure is clearly Japanese out of the box and while I could use such a figure the use would be limited unless I could morph the figure to other ethnic groups.  If I was doing this as a living and needed and Japanese character Mariko seems a good figure.  However 3D work is a hobby for me and if I am going to fill a runtime with clothing and morphs for one figure I want that figure to be flexible. 

M4 and V4 have ethnic morphs packs and they would be a loss to me if any potential new figure did not have this sort of support.  Even without the packs there are V4 characters here at Rendo that have clear African, Irish and many other origins which would go to making the base figure more flexible.

It seems that most merchant resources are caucassian. I've heard they aren't easy to convert to other ethnicities. I've never tried. I'm just repeating what I've heard. Where most people use these merchant resources, it would explain why they only make caucassion figures

Converting base figures for ethnicity can, from what I understand, be a daunting task.  Take the Native Americans.  The ony commonality is the epicanthic fold at the eyes. The rest is dictated by the Tribal genetics.  Getting that "Roman Nose" and high cheek bones, from those I've worked with in the past on such efforts, can be horribley frustrating.

If one were truly interested in ethnic diversity, I would recommend using the Smithsonian archive of photography and looking at the earliest photos availabe of each ethnic group.  Consider the bone structure as an overlay for tweaking the geometries of the head and face for a more correct structure.

I've been told it can be time consuming, but I would feel it worth the effort.  Sadly, working two jobs (one of which is as a full time Instructor at the local University), I have not had the time and energy to learn any of the modeling programs and must rely on the kindness of those who DO work with them.

Take heart, diversity is out there...it's just going to take some work to make it visible to the average viewer.  

Quote - It seems that most merchant resources are caucassian. I've heard they aren't easy to convert to other ethnicities. I've never tried. I'm just repeating what I've heard. Where most people use these merchant resources, it would explain why they only make caucassion figures

I am sure you are right to a large degree and ethnic origin may not that important to some people.  Here are a couple I have purchased and used.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/mdd-shanice-for-v4-2/101481/

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vyk-xhosa/104253/

There are more I have purchased but they don't appear to be in the market place any more so perhaps that says something.

Quote - I don't see the term 'Caucasian' mentioned anywhere in the paragraph you quoted. What exactly is 'Caucasian' anyway? The term is often incorrectly applied to anyone that isn't immediately identifiable as African, Asian, or some other distinct race/nationality. 

Light beige or pink skin does not automatically make someone Caucasian, which isn't even a distinct race anymore.

And there are many non-Caucasian characters in the various stores.

In terms of base figures, there are at least 15 to 20 that I can think of right now that are clearly non-Caucasian. Why vendors choose not to develop for them is a question you would need to ask each of those vendors. 

A blank slate figure is not Caucasian, it's a blank slate. 

Fair enough. I'll concede I used the term to mean a generic "white-skinned" human, but, again to be fair, it's about as generically descriptive a term for white people, as black, asian, or hispanic is for any other racial group.

Now, define "blank slate".

Blank slate is a face with no Race specific features or strong characteristics. It's just a face. Has a nose, eyes, mouth etc. eg eyes are not tilted, mouth is a plain generic shape. Basically something that is easy to morph into anything else where you don't have to erase existing features. Same principle for Body.

A blank slate will mean different things to different people, what I meant by it was a figure that has no strong ethnic traites but has the ablilty to be morphed accordingly.  I am not sure ethnic was the best word to describe what I was after either.

Most of my renders are of female characters and therefore so are most of the morphs that I have purchased.  I buy characters the look Irish, Russian, East European, African and anything else that may be a little different.  They are often not sold as characters originating from these places but they appear so to me.  I also use the creature packs and ethnic morphs to change appearance, which is porbably why I used the term ethnic when is was not that accurate.

My renders generally deal with Sci-Fi and my aim is to create scenes where the individuals come from a multitude of backgrounds and therefore I want the figures I use to be able to support that.

Quote - Blank slate is a face with no Race specific features or strong characteristics. It's just a face. Has a nose, eyes, mouth etc. eg eyes are not tilted, mouth is a plain generic shape. Basically something that is easy to morph into anything else where you don't have to erase existing features. Same principle for Body.

Cross post.

Now if only I could have found the words to describe what I meant... that is exactly what I meant....Thank you.

lol no prob.

That's a good point, RedPhantom. I hadn't thought about just how many use merchant resources, but you are right. 

And I think that also stems from the lack of diversity among the selection of hi-res photo resources available as well. Most of them, as I understand it, come from 3d.sk, which is a Slovakian company (or somewhere in that area) - where a large percentage of the population is still mostly "white", so most of the models used are your classic representation of "Caucasians" or what most consider to be. It's difficult to find a lot of reference on their site that are not white, but that's not their fault necessarily, as they can only photograph those folks who are available and willing. 

You might also consider going to Pantone and looking at their ethnic skin color codes.  There's a translator sheet out there somewhere that gives the conversion from Pantone to RGB or other values.  With the melding of races that is prevelant these days a proper skin tone might help quite a bit.

Talk about a THIN ICE thread.

Just about anything ya say could be taken in diffrent ways ,good or bad.

here 1/2 the time we don't know what race where talking to ,
heck 1/2 the time I don't know if I'm talking to a boy or girl.

but in the real world racism is there.

it would be best if you all just let this thread go.

There is a difference between race and racism. We are focusing on different races, which I don't find anything wrong with.

Same thing can be said about age.

Why do all Poser women have to be early 20's.
Why do all Poser men have to be 20-25 years of age?

Ok, there are some boys and girls, but the 30-40 and 40-50 age group is non existing.

Native Indian textures, asian textures, black african or south american textures? They are rare and far between.

I think this is a good tread and not a sensitive remark at all.

So far Poser and DS have been concentrating around Holywood style people, dressed in close to not a lot at all.

I can see that threads like this could be difficult and even choosing your words carefully there is still the danger the words might be mis-interpreted.  On the other hand it is also difficult to see that the aim to use different races and implied different backgrounds in rendered scenes could be deemed as being racist.

I also feel there can be dangers in not raising a subject just on the grounds that it might be seen as racist but that is a very personal opinion.

True we do not know the race or sex of the people we may be talking to but, to a degree, this is balanced by the fact we often do not know the race or the sex of the person posting.

Quote - Same thing can be said about age.

Why do all Poser women have to be early 20's.
Why do all Poser men have to be 20-25 years of age?

Ok, there are some boys and girls, but the 30-40 and 40-50 age group is non existing.

Now I agree with that 100%.  The only thing I have found for V4 so far is 3DA Agatha by 3-D Arena which at least ages V4 somewhat.  Not sure what the age would be but it is a refreshing break from the V4 norm.  There are also a couple of attempts at ugly, Ok I know that is a subjective term, but they are clearly not the V4 norm either. 

I guess it says something for the Poser/DS market when there is the oft heard complaint that venders are producting the same old stuff, while others see an area that is not well supported,  but versions of skimpy wear is still added daily.

Quote - Same thing can be said about age.
Why do all Poser women have to be early 20's.
Why do all Poser men have to be 20-25 years of age?

Because that's what sells the most. 

Quote -
Ok, there are some boys and girls, but the 30-40 and 40-50 age group is non existing.

Ok Tony, I'll give you one point for being mostly correct, that 40 to 50 and up age group is almost non-existant. But there are some. More than some. You just have to look.

But many, many characters in this MP and others could easily pass for 30 - 40 and a bit over. Is there some rule that says over 30, or even over 40, we all magically turn to slobs? lol.

Most of the biggest stars in Hollywood right now are in their 30s and 40s, and that age group doesn't look nearly as "aged" as it used to. Probably due to all the preservatives in our food. And plastic surgery. But Hollywood isn't a good place to get an accurate depiction of the standard age look, as many of them do whatever it takes to look as young as possible. And that's because young, tight and sexy is what sells movies, and Poser characters. 

V3 always looked mid 30s or older to me, and many of the characters for her did as well. V4 looks younger, but not by much.

Many 40+ year olds today barely look 30, in or out of Hollywood. Especially the ones that take care of themselves, eat healthy and excercise. I'll be 40 next week. And while I'm a bit overweight, (which I'm actively working on changing and have been making good progress). I don't have wrinkles or sagging skin and most people think I'm still in my early to mid 30s. Which is a bit odd to me, because when I was in my early to mid teens, a lot of people thought I was in my 20s. Tho thats probably due to having started shaving regularly at about 11 or 12. But today, I get "you're 40? wow!" And I don't even work out consistently (but changing that) or do much more than sit here slaving on my PC. I have some health issues that sap a lot of my energy, but you couldn't tell by looking at me. If I actually started working out every day I could push that further down to about 30. Ok maybe 32. 

Sidney and Jessi both look at least 30, maybe closer to 35. Probably not a good example, since no one makes content for them. 

Check out the lovely redhead on the banner ad to the left - MRL Elena. I'd guess she's about 32. But she could be 28, or she could be older. 

Or the actress/singer Emily Kinney - who plays an 18 year old girl on the walking dead. She's 29 in RL. 

They're as diverse as they need to be.

Some rare ethnic types are unrepresented.  I don't think you'll find many Eskimos or similar northern tribes.  Not many Nepal/Bhutan types, even though they're rather attractive and distinctive.

I do think age is much harder to define than race, perhaps that is because perceived age is dependent to a large degree on the texture used which is also dependant on the lighting.

There are other cues, which can be very subjective, such as fashion and hair style.  My present aim is to make my character appear to be late thirties to early forties but I am amazed at how a particular hair style changes the appearance.   Before I purchase anything for this particular character I try to look at real life images of similar aged people.  In many cases I do not buy the item but that is usually because it would look too young.  Very rarely do I not buy becuase it would make the character look too old.

How old would you say Roxie looked?

Quote - How old would you say Roxie looked?

IMO, with her default clothes and hair, somewhere in her mid to late teens, not quite a woman yet. 

I am a BLACK(not "African American") America born Citizen who does not subscribe to the Afrocentric political ideology that assumes we all must embrace some cultural Affiliation with African Culture.

I have noticed that the few merchants who do create the occasional non Euro/white Characters typically make Dark skinned
decidedly "African" Looking Characters
sometimes with a steroptypical "African "sounding name and content motif.

As though you only have a choice of Uber Nordic or  Exotic"Nubian".
So waiting for merchants will not always give you what you seek anyways

You never see any medium tone or Light skinned blacks like myself
but Alas I did not complain.

When creating my Self CG clone
I took an Old Mike 2 texture and use the mac System color picker to Sample a photo of my actual face to create the diffuse color and hand painted in my freckles on the face mapin photoshop

I literally stole the green/hazel eyeballs from an old P6 jessie Character Called "bryn for jessie" by former merchant "Shaharra"

So if you truly want a certain look
Do the work yourself

The thing to remember is not everybody has the time to do thing's themselves. Hense why they will pay for the convenience, and sometimes just wish that convenience is more what they are looking for. Majority of this market is not a DIY. If that was the case, vendors would serve less of a purpose. Yes you get those who can edit, modify existing content to get it specifically the way they want, but not everybody does so.

Age and ethnicity can sometimes be subjective, or maybe always are.  I don't see Roxie as that young, maybe in her early twenties but definitely a woman.  In RL, people don't fall into distinct, clear cut brackets, and looks can really be deceiving, especially in the late teens/early twenties.  I think probably what is seen in the mind of the person spinning the dials more than anything else.  "The eye of the beholder" thing again.

Doric.

"The thing to remember is not everybody has the time to do thing's themselves. Hense why they will pay for the convenience, and sometimes just wish that convenience is more what they are looking for."

you are correct of course
most poser user want to mindlessly click load an render

Hence the exact reason why most content is in a temporal freeze around poser 7 technology
How long has the morph brush been in poser?
and the MAT room along with a resident super expert
( bagginsbill) to hold peoples hands .

Poser has the technology built in to make the issue of character racial diversity moot ....oh well.

"The thing to remember is not everybody has the time to do thing's themselves. Hense why they will pay for the convenience, and sometimes just wish that convenience is more what they are looking for."

you are correct of course
most poser users want to mindlessly click load an render

Hence the exact reason why most content is in a temporal freeze around poser 7 technology.
How long has the morph brush been in poser?
and the MAT room along with a resident super expert
( bagginsbill) to hold peoples hands .

Poser has the technology built in to make the issue of character racial diversity moot

but oh well.

I agree with Doric about Roxie's age. I too see her as a young 20-something woman, but dress her younger, and she could pass for a teen.

And I have made a black character for Roxie, called Gwen. It was supposed to be a freebie, but I just never put it up.

Not a Poser figure, but a pretty amazing bit of CG character modelling and skin shader work by James Busby in the modo gallery here:

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=9&t=90998

Quote - "The thing to remember is not everybody has the time to do thing's themselves. Hense why they will pay for the convenience, and sometimes just wish that convenience is more what they are looking for."

you are correct of course
most poser users want to mindlessly click load an render

Hence the exact reason why most content is in a temporal freeze around poser 7 technology.
How long has the morph brush been in poser?
and the MAT room along with a resident super expert
( bagginsbill) to hold peoples hands .

Poser has the technology built in to make the issue of character racial diversity moot

but oh well.

What? Wait... Bagginsbill came with your version of Poser? Was that the electronic download or the box version?

Quote - "The thing to remember is not everybody has the time to do thing's themselves. Hense why they will pay for the convenience, and sometimes just wish that convenience is more what they are looking for."

you are correct of course
most poser users want to mindlessly click load an render

Hence the exact reason why most content is in a temporal freeze around poser 7 technology.
How long has the morph brush been in poser?
and the MAT room along with a resident super expert
( bagginsbill) to hold peoples hands .

Poser has the technology built in to make the issue of character racial diversity moot

but oh well.

I have been playing with Poser for ten years now and have updated to each version of Poser as it has been released.  I built three computers in that time researching, slelecting each item for the build.  I am comfortable with that.

Ask me to turn a base figure into a figure that has distinct race characteristics, of any race, and I would not know where to begin.  I am not even sure I could manage Toon let alone anything real world.  I don't doubt Poser has the ability but I don't. 

I am retired and so do have some time on time hands and I still try an learn new skills yet I do not have enough years left, of the inate skills to master materials at the level BB can.  I also know from experience that what is easy for some is not neccessarily easy for others.  All of this leads me to the point of buying all of my content.  I may play with the materials, take a model into Silo and lop some bits off or change small bits here and there but they were all created by someone else.  I don't think I am alone and, considering the few hours I have free in a day, even though retired, I do not regard my self as lazy or thick nor do I recognise the description of "mindless click load and render".  I am however thankful that vendors are prepared to make stuff for me and I am happy to pay for it.  It may be cheque book art but it allows me to build scenes I could not imagine otherwise.

Anyway, I think a good reason to run this thread can be to encourage vendors to try different products. Is it really a fact that variants in ethnics don't sell?

Me myself I have spent many hours (not only at Rendo's, but also on other markets) to find i.e. hispanic or aboriginal or GOOD (real) african figures. Maybe I am a bit overcritic, having worked and lived in Central-East-Africa for almost a decade. If I see a Poser figure sold as native african, where the vendor has just darkened the skin, I want to cry. There are only 3 or 4 african native characters I ever found at Rendo's which didn't make me cry or laugh. Tempesta3D is a very honorable exception in this. I tried to find some acceptable hispano or south american figure, but up to now I didn't consider any of the offered ones worth the money.

So maybe (and in my oppinion most likely) the problem is not missing clients for these figures, but missing quality of those offered?

I want to apologize if my language may not be politically correct somewhere. English is not my first language, and living in Africa for such a long time makes you relaxed about these things. People there call themselves 'blacks' and even insist being called like this, and the same way I got used to be addressed as 'mzungu' all the time, even calling you from a distance, the (intended) meaning of 'mzungu' is 'white guy', even if the literal meaning in Swahili is different from this. I had to learn not to feel offended, so again my apologies if I chose any wrong words in my comment.

"What? Wait... Bagginsbill came with your version of Poser? Was that the electronic download or the box version? "

No but he is a valuable Expert resource in this community who was willing to
Manage & curate a comprehensive poser Wikki that was promptly squashed by the Management here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2832647

But at any rate you have your answer  to the question posed in your thread title..sales
nothing is going to make venders produce content they feel wont sell.
So either  learn to use the Face room/morph brush/
Easy Skin etc.  to make your own ethnic variety or
resign yourself to the rendering  the racial types your are given to you by 'the market".

Here's a little ethnicity available from DAZ

[no off-site commercial links please]

Now I just have to figure out the DSON stuff to bring the Genesis figure into Poser.

there's Kelvin, Koji, JamesG2, Olivia, JessiG2.

If ethnic Mikes and Vickies sold better, prolly would see more follow up in the mp. prolly.

plus the mp haz to make it easy to find.

how do you search the mp for an ethnic character?  Mike + African? Mike + Asian?

Why isn't the 3D marketplace more racially diverse?

Short answer:
Because most of the vendors are hobbyists - they have told us repeatedly over the years that they only make what they are personally interested in.

Detailed answer:
The vendor that has made the most black characters for the Gen4 figures is Reciecup - go visit her homepage here at 'Rosity.  We get many great black male & female figures from her - ever wonder wonder why?

If you want more than the same generic Caucasian 20 somethings, as Wolf 359 pointed out, you will have to either do the work yourself, or shop elsewhere - or better yet a combination of both.  Fortunately, there are tools available to us to address these issues - if one is willing to actually use them.

As an example, if I wanted to 'age' a V4, the V4 Ultra Aging Morphs over at RDNA appears to fit the bill.  Some of the legacy figures have a number of older characters available for them - SM's G2 series along with Miki 2 have a nice selection of both races & ages - the fact that they are normally sized and proportioned is an added bonus for what I do.

If you pick up a copy of Texture Transfer and Texture Converter 1 & 2, you can move those ethnic skins over to other figures, which is always a plus.

As far as the "It's hard to adjust ethnicity from a base figure" nonsense, I would suggest that people take a look at characters made for the SM figures.  Vendors such as Tempesta3d have changed Miki 4 from an Asian to a Caucasian and to an African.  The same can be said for Jessi 2, Sydney (Cyllan over at Content Paradise), as well as Olivia going from a black character to a Caucasian character (courtesy of LuluLee).  It can be done, IF the vendor is willing to put in the effort.  Alas, most vendors aren't willing to put in the effort, when instead they could be making their 37th Caucasian figure or their 68th V4 clubwear outfit.  

There are most certainly not "many" non-Caucasians in the various stores - I own almost every one that has been released since the P6 days.  Whether you are talking African, First Nations, Indians, Asians, etc - all combined are less than 10% of what is actually available.  For example, I did a V4 character search here at 'Rosity - of the 583 characters made for V4 that show up, only 17 were black (>3%) - not my definition of "many" and don't get me started on Indians or 1st Nations characters.  

Although in 'Rosity's defense, a large majority (60+) of black V4 figures I own (and are available for sale at 'Rosity right now) don't actually show up when I do a search on V4 characters - (Departments - 3D figure Essentials - Characters - V4) which makes the counting (and searching) a bit harder.  When I did my search, not a single figure (50 characters for V4/G4/A4) by Reciecup showed up, and only 2 out of 11 of Tempesda3D's black characters for V4 showed up.  

Which is a critical issue for 'Rosity in and of itself.  'Rosity should hire someone to fix their "search" function - because it certainly isn't actually finding what is available here.  If I was a vendor, I'd be a bit pissed about this.

Another thing is grasping that 'Rosity is not actually the Alpha & Omega of the Poserverse storefronts anymore - the interesting things are happening at other storefronts, whereas the vendors at 'Rosity are for the most part, still stuck in a Poser 7 timewarp.  

This issue may relate to why there are fewer people here than there used to be.  After all, if I am using Poser 8 or later, there are other storefronts that sell content that actually takes advantage of the features added to the last 3 versions of Poser.

Quote - Another thing is grasping that 'Rosity is not actually the Alpha & Omega of the Poserverse storefronts anymore - the interesting things are happening at other storefronts, whereas the vendors at 'Rosity are for the most part, still stuck in a Poser 7 timewarp. 

For those who dare to be more adventurous, there is always 'Faces of Africa' for Dawn at HW3D.. extremely versatile with several facemorphs that can be mixed and matched.. and they are actually fairly realistic, not just another 'caucasian' morph with a dark skin slapped on.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing more real scandinavian/north european morphs, and not barbie dolls.. not sure how to phrase this in a way that doesn't sound offensive, but I think most of you understand what I mean without the need to name vendors that spew out several V4 morphs a week that look exactly like their previous 200 morphs ;)

Diversity is good, I wish more vendors would embrace it. But they have to pay their bills I guess!

Quote - Another thing is grasping that 'Rosity is not actually the Alpha & Omega of the Poserverse storefronts anymore - the interesting things are happening at other storefronts, whereas the vendors at 'Rosity are for the most part, still stuck in a Poser 7 timewarp.

Sure, they may not be the 'alpha and omega' of the Poserverse anymore, but they still remain the #1 Poser-related site based on traffic and sales data by a fairly significant margin. And I'm not saying this because I'm a mod here. I've done my research, and anyone with access to google can do the same research and see for themselves.

Quote - 'Rosity should hire someone to fix their "search" function - because it certainly isn't actually finding what is available here.

The search function relies on the data that the vendor provides for their product. If the vendor doesn't list their product correctly in the store, then the search feature can't find it. This has been an on-going issue for several years that is always frustrating. Many times the name of a product doesn't even say which figure it is for, so you have to open the actual page and then read the details for what figure is required to use it. 

I would personally like to see certain requirements such as this made so that products are placed in the proper categories and the right key words are used. Though at the same time, I'm not sure what the current requirements are for product listing, so I don't want it to sound like I'm blaming vendors for all of it. 

Maybe a suggestion could be put in the customer support forum where categories could be created for different ethnicities, or something that would allow for different character types. It could be beneficial to vendors too when searching the store to see if somethng they are interested in creating already has something similar available. I guess there could be drawbacks to that approach as well. 

ETA: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?TopID=359593&sub_category=3D%20Figure%20Essentials%3BCharacters

1st page, 2nd character, not caucasian. Very nice character too, with a Halloween theme included.

Quote - > Quote - 'Rosity should hire someone to fix their "search" function - because it certainly isn't actually finding what is available here.

The search function relies on the data that the vendor provides for their product. If the vendor doesn't list their product correctly in the store, then the search feature can't find it. This has been an on-going issue for several years that is always frustrating. Many times the name of a product doesn't even say which figure it is for, so you have to open the actual page and then read the details for what figure is required to use it. 

I would personally like to see certain requirements such as this made so that products are placed in the proper categories and the right key words are used. Though at the same time, I'm not sure what the current requirements are for product listing, so I don't want it to sound like I'm blaming vendors for all of it. 

Maybe a suggestion could be put in the customer support forum where categories could be created for different ethnicities, or something that would allow for different character types. It could be beneficial to vendors too when searching the store to see if somethng they are interested in creating already has something similar available. I guess there could be drawbacks to that approach as well. 

Is there a standard guide to entering the information so that the search function can find it? Sounds like at least one of the requirements should be that the product list which figure it is for.

Quote - Sounds like at least one of the requirements should be that the product list which figure it is for.

It does require this, but it doesn't make such a requirement for the name of the product, or the main thumbnail having to list it. But being on the thumb wouldn't help store search functions. 

Whatever the reason, it is frustrating.  In the past I have seen people ask for an item in the forum, or I know of an item which may meet their needs that I have already purchased.  I have then done a search here at Rendo and find nothing and advised that it was no longer available.  Week later a have fallen across the same product in the market place.

I now know I have to search my own database first to find the exact name and vendor and do a search using that information.  Not only is it annoying but there are potential sales being lost.

"How old would you say Roxie looked?""IMO, with her default clothes and hair, somewhere in her mid to late teens, not quite a woman yet."

Yeah, listen, I'm more "woman" than any humanoid man can handle, and my pert puffies have the older Poser girls really jealous because they need a bra to keep their sagging breasts under control, I don't!!!

As for that racist stuff, it wouldn't matter to me whether a Vickie was black or white, I never discriminate.  I cull Vickies no matter what colour they are, I even culled a bright green one last week.  She was supposed to be an alien or something, but I could tell she was really a Vickie!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Check out Rendercandy dot com

Reciecup has awesome morphs and superb skin textures. Nothing but diverse characters

If you're looking for something... in the Poser-verse... you can usually find it. It's more diverse than one may think at first.

I am always looking for character morphs and textures to represent the variety of races in South Africa. I have a very substantial collection of African and mixed-race females for V4, but dark-skinned males remain a problem. 

I believe a lack of image resources is a big part of the problem. At 3d.sk there is basically one black male for whom there is a full collection, and he has been seriously overused, so that I have a few different black male characters from different vendors, but the textures are very similar. We need distinctive characters. I won't sign up for an account with 3d.sk until they have a better variety of dark-skinned characters, especially males. 

"I won't sign up for an account with 3d.sk until they have a better variety of dark-skinned characters, especially males."

Hey Nanette, you should PM my bud, Rashad Carter on the DAZ forum.  Just tell him what you want; how fed-up you are about there not being enough dark-skinned males on there, and you never know, he might model on 3DSK for you.

Don't forget to tell him I sent you, otherwise he'll think WTF!
He'll probably think WTF anyway, but still :biggrin:

Quote - I believe a lack of image resources is a big part of the problem. At 3d.sk there is basically one black male for whom there is a full collection, and he has been seriously overused, so that I have a few different black male characters from different vendors, but the textures are very similar. We need distinctive characters. I won't sign up for an account with 3d.sk until they have a better variety of dark-skinned characters, especially males.

There aren't that many black/African people in central/Northern Europe, which is where 3d.sk is located. So it's quite possible the reason they don't have many balck men photo references available is because of this. They do have a few black females. And a female skin can be used on a male figure, he just won't have a lot of body hair so you'd need to paint that in.

You might also try contacting a man named Profotograf. Not sure if he checks his 'rosity account very often these days, but he used to take his own photo references, and I think they're all male. I don't know if he sells them anymore (or ever did), but you could ask if he has any African sets he might be willing to share. I haven't heard from him in a while, but he runs MPE, and has been busy trying to get that site set back up. 

Nanette dear, there is a very simple answer to your question.

Teyon is the main SM figure creator. (and good looking)

Use your warm South African charmes to write a soft and sensual message to Teyon here at rendero. Just ask him gently to "build" himself next time.

Problem solved.

One thing I've found is that there are quite a few textures with a mid-dark range skin tone suitable for Asians, Middle Easterners, Indians, Native Americans, and so forth--but so many of them have brown eyebrows, which is something you won't find on Native Americans and rarely find on Asians. There are several textures that are decent for use for Native Americans for V4 (Yaana being my favorite), but there is pretty much a grand total of one for M4 (Falcon). :( The Poserverse needs more true black-haired skins. :/