This is not meant as an offense to you kennect or anyone else here...please note this now.... Okay people's look....I know Willow and Grey have shown nothing but contempt for this place...that's all we ever hear about whenever threads like this startup. We certainly are not liked over there and Renderosity certainly IS a dirty word more or less. But can we be rational about this for one moment? Help me think enough to talk about this without causing even more shit, cause that's not what I want to do, not at all. I am just real tired of this. I have nothing to lose or gain by just keeping my mouth shut and letting this go on....or saying anything more....either way it won't do anything for me....except for some crappy dumbass reason I get the feeling I just gotta say something cause this just ain't fair somehow. It's this stupid feeling I have...go figure....I am a lost cause and can't help myself! We are human...and we are members. On the whole I would like to think that we are humans first and members second because as members we are still only virtual entities....as humans we are for REAL...life, our talents, our art, our entire make-up of whom we are encased in a real, living, breathing shell full of flesh and feelings. On forums such as this where we mingle day to day it is sometimes very easy to forget that we are all very real people outside of these encampments of virtual members. It's so simple to heckle, ridicule and troll another because it has no real meaning to us except for as much as any of this may affect us in our REAL lives. So what am I getting at here? We could all agree quite easily that upon these forums it is quite different to have our debates and slurs and flaming upon each other here from having someone with a grudge or spite going into the galleries and singling out our good work and trolling it with badass comments and graffiti <----that hurts! We all seem to know that on the whole is one thing...personal is the shits and very unwarranted. When we are administrators or forum leaders it is quite simple to suggest that as such representatives we need to take the punches with our roles...but again....is it right to have to bring it HOME or to our personal life and being? We are all members of forums....as such when the forums and its' people are ridiculed or called names we should be upset and we should have a problem with this, naturally. We are all humans...as such when our personal lives are upturned and seared as a runoff of events that happen on these virtual forums...then it gets rediculous, extremely!! I don't know about you but fighting virtual battles is one thing....having it get "personal" is another....the personal shit, that's enough to leave one helluva nasty impression on anyone affected thus and no virtual "plural" insult could ever be as bad as one that follows you to your REAL life! That can leave one BADASS sour taste in your mouth against whatever direction it came from, even if that missile launcher is not even there anymore, that don't matter, you just know that the missile that penetrated your real world and caused so much grief came from that direction and you do not want to ever even know that the place where this came from and the people that may have condoned this launch resided, you do NOT wish to ever acknowledge that place again! This is the "feeling" I "think" is causing a lot of this dissention at the PFO and I really apologize for saying this....I may even be way wrong....but from what I know....this is it, this is basically what broke the camel's back and has never healed and may never heal no matter how much this place changes. Many of you folks here get real upset when your artwork gets trolled, imagine having your LIFE get TROLLED beyond comprehension....so bad that your real life may never be quite the same again. There are cool talented folks on both sites and so many things HAVE changed over time and things have become so much more professional all around...(except this C&D forum, hehe)... but deep scars are very hard to heal and they can make one blind with a passionate rage forevermore...... I understand...and I don't understand...but one thing I do know..."some things I wish I didn't know".... it all just gives me one big bloody "real" headache! Now I am going to abide by Ironbears wishes long ago in this thread and depart from it. Take care.