@Shane
Where to start ... might as well be Pollock as that's where my comment seems to have had the most influence on your reply to me.

So regards Pollock: At the time you first mentioned Pollock, I was sort of semi-aware of some of Pollock's background because I saw (I think) it was a BBC documentary about him some years back, and if he's the guy I think he is - a big thumbs-up to him.  The thumbs-up is for him, however, not the art.  I like the analogy of looking up at the stars, and believe it or not, I do understand how you would connect that to his work and as I said originally, I do understand why you like it.  Both are big and random, and both allow you to pick what your mind wishes from them.  I'm not an educated "Art" guy, absolutely not, I wouldn't even dream of pretending I am.  I'm the sort of person who, after watching two art experts analyse a nude for hours, would probably walk up behind them and say something like ...

"Hah, so that's why you've been stood here talking for hours, but I don't blame you, great tits!"

Those art critics, like you, and like Moriador, would likely turn your nonses up and just assume I'm an ignorant ass for what I said.  But that's one of the problems with society, because while that ignorant ass might indeed come across as such, it's easy to forget that there is a raw unpoluted truth in what he says.  The well behaved art critics might have whispered deep and meaningful words to each other for hours, but it's the ignorant ass who nailed it on the head, cause like it or not, it's those  "Great Tits!"  that will ultimately sell the image.

And that's the sort of thing that has happened here.  You and Moriador are effectively the art critics, and I'm just the ignorant ass.  It's not Pollock or his art I took issue with, it's how you replied to RorrKonn, the way it appeared to be constructed.  Telling someone that the art they admire is the domain of horny little boys, and then presenting a Pollock like you did, was very belittling.  I know it was belittling because I felt belittled by it myself, and you wasn't even replying to me!  On that occasion, you were effectively the ignorant ass, because you painted the entire hetero-male population as 'horny little boys' without even realising it.  The problem with what you said is that you're only looking at it one-sided.  You are absolutely correct in that such work is done for the commercial value, of course it is - it's the same old story - sex sells.  But the bit you forgot about is that "Fantasy Female" art is absolutely not strictly the domain of horny little boys.  It's popular with that age group for obvious reasons, it might even be most popular with that age group, but it's also popular with the adult male for exactly the same reasons, so it's far away from having the limited market and appeal you seem to think it has.  It just felt very one-sided and belittling.

Regards my discussions with Moriador:  The problem is that whenever a discussion gets heated or she feels she's losing a debate, she looks elsewhere to find something to insult me.  First of all it was that stuff about her suspecting I was gay (WTF!).  Then she became 'Moriador the Analyst' and decided I'm suffering from something.  Oh, and then she brought-up web-browsers for crying out loud!  I was scratching my head right now wondering what the hell she's gonna come up with next, but I just did a page refresh while writing this and I see she's decided not to subject me to it after all.

I suppose I can at least be thankful for that, though what she doesn't realise is that I wanted her to be right, I'd love to agree with her for once!

Regards the Objectification of Women:  I'm glad you posted what you did, because you highlighted an aspect I hadn't thought about, and it's very important.  When I speak of the eroticness of a woman being helpless, I speak of a consenting woman being helpless, and that of course is vital.  There is nothing wrong with roleplaying a sacrifice, a rape, or indeed anything you can imagine - as long as it's consenting.  Such things are nothing new, it's as mainstream as a trip to the Cinema these days, a place where nudity, violence, death, rape - and all sorts of perversions have been used to bait audiences for decades.

So how would some of you like to question your own morals instead of questioning mine?

Now I could, if I wanted to be really cocky, let people click on the attached Film and then tell them why I posted it.  But due to the content, I'll give you fair warning and allow you (and others) to test your own morals; I'll tell you in advance what happens in the Film.  So the film, shot in Spain, is all about Devil Worship, and to Worship the Devil means a sacrifice is in order.  Not surprisingly then, the movie features a beautiful woman who gets restrained, has her clothes removed, gets raped and then killed (representing a sacrifice to the Devil).  It's an "Erotic Horror", and the reason it carries such a label is because, despite how extreme my description might sound to some, it's basically those classic 'Power of Suggestion' and 'Domination' aspects of erotica - nothing more.  It's the classic situation where the women is powerless to do anything about her imminent demise (a take on the 'damsel in distress' theme often used in comics).

Hypocricy Test (For Males Only):
1 - Are you appalled that a Film would feature such things, and refuse to watch it?
2 - Are you trying hard not to watch the Film?
3 - Are you rushing to play it now that you know what happens in it?

Here you go, the scene I described starts at  2:14  and remember you are as free to ignore it as you are to click it :

[link removed]

Hypocricy Test Results - AKA which option applied to you?
1 - You're a dying breed, such Films have been made for decades, are freely available, got my English-Dubbed version on Amazon :-D
2 - Valiant attempt, but my firend Mr Devil Snake just told me you gave in quite easily, so welcome to the adult world of suggestion and restraint - Erotica!
3 - Dammit, RorrKonn, I thought I'd find you here, I don't like hypocrites either so I wonder how many Hypocrite-to-Reality converts we'll find?

Yes, I'm still "proud" to admit that I objectify women, it's what men do, but it's vital to understand the context.  Every heterosexual male on this planet "objectifies" women.  A woman is objectified every time a man looks at a woman in a photo and starts roleplaying in his mind.  I don't care whether it's something tasteful like Playboy, a kinky looking Ad for some Poser Lingerie on Renderosity, or something more unusual, it's exactly the same thing - you are objectifying a woman when you do so.  A women in a photograph never specifically asked you to drool over her, she had no clue who would be looking at her when the photo was taken, but you are looking at her and the moment you start using your imagination, you are objectifying her.  She is just as "powerless" to stop you looking at her as she is to stop your imagination running wild.

The other detail that needs to be cleared-up is regards the women themselves who do these things.  I get the impression that you see this stuff as something most women have no interest in.  I'm sorry Shane, but I have to disagree on that one.  I have no solid figures, but women aren't the little angels you seem to think they are.  The amount of girls who take voluntary nude selfies of themselves is indication enough, that first and foremost, they love to be objectified (those types of images are voluntary).  They do it because they know how much power their body has over the men that are looking at them, it gives them a sense of power (and that's a good thing).  What I also know is I'd be spoilt for choice if I were the sort of guy who'd hang with a total stranger just for the experience.  I could, literally, switch-off this computer right now, and in twenty minutes flat, meet-up and be having the time of my life with a like-minded woman - it's that easy.  It's something I've never done and never will do even though I wouldn't have to pay for the priviledge.  But the fact that it's so easy and there are so many places and opportunities dedicated to this sort of thing, tells me that they are perfectly fine with it.  I really don't think those women would be offering their bodies for free otherwise.

So in my opinion, they're not just fine with it, they want it - big-time.  Of course there are women who aren't into this stuff, I know that, but I'm talking about the ones that are interested, and there's more than plenty of them out there, and more besides (and growing all the time).  I think the bottom line is, as I've tried to point out, this stuff is all pretty mainstream now, it's just "classic erotica", has been for decades, it's nothing unusual and nothing to be ashamed of.  There are hundreds of fetishes etc, but they all boil down to the same surprisingly few categories of erotica.  And I think the only difference between now and the past, is that now, people are more prepared to be honest about it, and the reason they're honest about it is because this stuff is no longer taboo (and it never should have been in the first place).  People shouldnlt be made to feel like freaks because of a fetish no matter how deviant it is.  Consent of a fetish between two adults is no one elses business (and certainly no concern for society).  If others don't like their fetish, who gives a crap because it's not as if they asked them to watch, and what two (or more) consenting adults between them, has nothing to do with any other member of society - whatsoever.

Which brings me to desensitization of the heavy stuff.  You make an interesting point about desensitization, but like many, I've always been of the belief that no amount of Cinema (or rather Sinema) is going to make someone do something they would not have done anyway.  And a movie such as the one I attached to this post, would be no more taboo in a real life situation than someone getting their head chopped-off as they do in a video game.  In a real-life situation, someone getting their head chopped-off is no less horrific than a women getting raped, and no human with a fully functioning brain is ever going to do any of those things.

The desensitization thing is something I always read with fascination if I come across it, but regardless, my conclusion is always the same no matter who says what.   To me, a person either has a killer or rapist in them, or they don't, and I don't believe any amount of Sinema or Throat-Slashing videogames is going to turn any person into one any more than anyone who watches the attached FIlm would go out and really sacrifice a woman to the Devil.  I mean how many millions of people have seen Devil Worship movies over the years, and how many women have really been sacrificed to the Devil?

Exactly, and I think it's important to remember that if the world revolved around such a paranoid mechanism, our lives would be truly unbearable.

• Do we frown upon high-heel shoes because thousands of women topple and hurt themselves in them every year? 
• Do we frown upon cars because thousands of people are killed in (and by) them every year?
• Do we frown upon Erotic Horror just because the occasional loonie doesn't have the brains to understand that you don't really sacrifice women?

I hope this post came across in a respectable manner, and it's kinda hard considering the subject matter.  I think I might have shocked some, but hopefully clarified to others.  I've read it over carefully so as to ensure there is nothing insulting to anyone.  Finally, I thought pretty damn hard about how to structure it, how to make people think, and hopefully make any doubters question their own hypocricies.  The Film itself was chosen for the content it contains, and the whole idea of describing what happens in the Film is that it will either excite or repel a person.  All I've done here is what the Sinema industry has been doing for decades to entice the crowds to the Sinema - it's worked for them for decades and it will work equally well here.

Isn't that right, Mr Devil Snake?

Yesssssssss, it sure isssssssss!
Come ride with the Devil, my children, there issssssss much fun and sssssssssex to be had when you ride with Mr Devil Sssssssssnake!

• Mr Devil Sssssssssnake

OMFG, Mr Devil Snake!!!
I'm so going to get a tattoo of you on my body!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade