okay, cloud.... now explain to me how he went from having like 5 polygons making up the torso, to all those little polygons making up the nipple, and the ones that split and do those three lines here and three lines there at the muscle intersections :/ uberdude: the most common progs used to make poser morph targets are anim8or, rhino, and amorphim(pro), although z-brush is making a big impression, now. if i understand correctly, lightwave can make morph targets for poser, but it cant do fancy tricks such as hiding the teeth/tongue while you work on the skin (you can, but it messes up the vertex count/order, or some such). dont forget what poser's magnets can do. they are pretty handy!